Trialmaster delete

[Jeremy996]

In the UK, there is a big, (costly), difference in VED, (Vehicle Excise Duty - annual road tax) between the Belstaff versions and the basic station wagon, partly reflected in the OTR costs.

VED commercial Station wagon = £290 per annum, 

Cars over £40k and emission in excess of 255g/km, £2,365 1st year and £165 + 355 = 520  for 5 years, £165 thereafter.

£1,740 vs £4,965 over 6 years. Nowhere near as expensive as many places in the EU, but the saving is enough to pay for some of my extras

 

[G-Man]

I think there's probably some confusion over nomenclature here, as there is actually no 'commercial' version offered for sale on the Ineos website, Only 'Utility' (2 seat), 'Station Wagon' (5-seat) and Belstaff (5-seat with more 2nd row leg room and extra bling). So the reduction in VED only applies to the 2-seat Utility. I believe the 2-seat Utility model is classified as a commercial vehicle because it is capable of carrying significantly more weight than the total mass of the passengers.

 

[stickshifter]

It's subtle but you can definitely see the cargo barrier sits ~3" further back in the Belstaff versions. In the SW the seats and barrier are in line with the C door pillar, but in the Belstaff version the seats are further back and the cargo barrier sits across the end of the rear side windows.

Nice work G-Man!

 

[stickshifter]

Doesn't make much sense, as the commercial version is a 2-seater! As far as I can tell the only versions with a 2nd row are the SW and the Belstaffs

Like you - I thought that the "Commercial" version was the 2-seater (and that made sense). But it seems like they are referring to the five-seater with (a) upright second-row seats, and (b) slightly more room behind the second row of seats, as the "commercial" version of the 5-seater. Do I have that right?


I don't think there will be much demand for a "commercial 5-seater" in the U.S. - though I can see it selling in Europe where there is a market for commercial vehicles of this size. I think a lot of American overlanders who are either solo or a couple will go for the commercial 2-seater (a) maybe a little cheaper, (b) slightly better payload without second row seating, and (c) more room for gear.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Like you - I thought that the "Commercial" version was the 2-seater (and that made sense). But it seems like they are referring to the five-seater with (a) upright second-row seats, and (b) slightly more room behind the second row of seats, as the "commercial" version of the 5-seater. Do I have that right?


I don't think there will be much demand for a "commercial 5-seater" in the U.S. - though I can see it selling in Europe where there is a market for commercial vehicles of this size. I think a lot of American overlanders who are either solo or a couple will go for the commercial 2-seater (a) maybe a little cheaper, (b) slightly better payload without second row seating, and (c) more room for gear.

at this moment the only option for us is the 5 seater SW or Belfast editions. 

 

[emax]

> in Europe where there is a market for commercial vehicles of this size.

The craftsmen here in Germany mostly drive e.g. Renault Kangoo and the like for one third of the money. No room for luxury. A Grenadier is at the best the boss'  private toy.

 

[stickshifter]

Yeah, I was just giving Ineos the benefit of the doubt. It will be too pricey for most commercial applications - like all the small delivery vehicles and other small commercial vehicles common in European cities. I don’t see any commercial application here in the US where larger pickups do most of that work. As I mentioned previously - I think the commercial 2-seater will have a market for overlanders.

 

[PBD]

The thing that put me off both the two and five seat commercial versions is their classification.  I have been told a number of times that they are both N1, whilst the bellstaff version’s are M1.  N1  category has restrictions on uk speed limits and that is what put me off the two seater version, going for the trialmaster instead.

 

[grenadierboy]

It's subtle but you can definitely see the cargo barrier sits ~3" further back in the Belstaff versions. In the SW the seats and barrier are in line with the C door pillar, but in the Belstaff version the seats are further back and the cargo barrier sits across the end of the rear side windows.

Thanks G-Man!

I didn't pick up the description of the Belstaff editions with slightly more knee room (and now see it thanks to your screenshots).

The difference of 79mm/3 inches; is quite a lot of extra space for either knees or cargo.

Dam it - I may not have ordered the SW with options but gone with the Trialmaster had I had realised this issue.


What would be really cool is if the movement of the rear seat forward & back is quick release adjustable, so if one day you are travelling with 4 persons and limited cargo you can adjust the seat back and the next day move it forward because you want extra load space.

If not, hopefully the rear seats in a SW can still be moved back if the Belstaff edition rear seat secure points are also produced in the body floor during production process.

I will ask INEOS about this next week.

cheers

 

[grenadierboy]

Hi G-Man,

Back again on this issue.

I remain a bit confused on the issue of the rear seat positioning.

I logged onto the Australian website (I am in Melbourne) and to the configurator to see the interior photos of the seat positioning across the different SW models.

------------

On the Australian site: you first choose between the 5 seat Station Wagon or the 2 seat Utility Wagon. 

Then - under "Station Wagon", you can chose either the base Grenadier, the Trialmaster or the Fieldmaster.

When I chose each of these 3 versions of the 5 seat Station Wagon - the rear seat positioning is exactly the SAME - that is, in the furthest rear position.

On the Australian website - the Grenadier (or base SW version) does NOT have the rear seat position forward like in your photos (I assume from the UK website).

Could it be that just for the UK market - INEOS is moving the position of the rear seat forward on the base SW model for the purposes of rules on different types of commercial vehicles and this rear seat forward position is not being done for other markets??

I will ask INEOS to clarify this.

Are there any Aussies out there that have looked at this issue??

 

[G-Man]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332672900]

Could it be that just for the UK market - INEOS is moving the position of the rear seat forward on the base SW model for the purposes of rules on different types of commercial vehicles and this rear seat forward position is not being done for other markets??

[/QUOTE]

hi Mark I think you could be onto something there. I hadn’t considered the vehicle being configured differently for other markets. As the grenadier is a big Mechano kit I bet it would be relatively straightforward to move the seat backwards if necessary, provided the relevant brackets were freely available 

 

[eblis2you]

[QUOTE username=Mark Evans  grenadierboy userid=8954799 postid=1332672900]Hi G-Man,

Back again on this issue.

I remain a bit confused on the issue of the rear seat positioning.

I logged onto the Australian website (I am in Melbourne) and to the configurator to see the interior photos of the seat positioning across the different SW models.

------------

On the Australian site: you first choose between the 5 seat Station Wagon or the 2 seat Utility Wagon. 

Then - under "Station Wagon", you can chose either the base Grenadier, the Trialmaster or the Fieldmaster.

When I chose each of these 3 versions of the 5 seat Station Wagon - the rear seat positioning is exactly the SAME - that is, in the furthest rear position.

On the Australian website - the Grenadier (or base SW version) does NOT have the rear seat position forward like in your photos (I assume from the UK website).

Could it be that just for the UK market - INEOS is moving the position of the rear seat forward on the base SW model for the purposes of rules on different types of commercial vehicles and this rear seat forward position is not being done for other markets??

I will ask INEOS to clarify this.

Are there any Aussies out there that have looked at this issue??




[/QUOTE]

I’m from Melbourne as well. During the test drive a while ago I have asked gentleman specifically regarding 5 seat commercial version which I’m interested. The man pretty sure they WON’T bring it here, just normal 5 seater. Which is correct according recent brochure

 

[Marsbilda]

Is anybody worried at all about buying a car that you haven’t driven

 

[grenadierboy]

The driving experience would have to be pretty bad.
I've been driven in it. - it drove very nicely.
All feedback from car experts that have driven has been very positive.

The only "gap" is fast freeway/motorway driving - haven't seen any testing feedback on this. 

 

[DaveB]

It seems to be fairly common these days to buy something online you haven’t seen or tried.
When my almost son in law purchased a Mazda MX5 last year they didn’t have one with the turbo petrol motor that he could drive so he he had to try what they had. 
They also didn’t have the specifications he wanted to show him or the colour so he went on pictures. 
As Mark said all the reviews have been good but I too wish that someone had driven it on a highway at speed. 
I just hired a Toyota RAV4 and it was absolutely terrible on the highway.
Vague steering, road noise, wind noise and gutless. 

 

[Davman]

. 
I just hired a Toyota RAV4 and it was absolutely terrible on the highway.
Vague steering, road noise, wind noise and gutless. 

Sounds like a typical rental car. I hired a Toyota Fortuner Diesel in NZ Pre Covid.  Oh my goodness me was that car BAAAAAD.

 

[Marsbilda]

Don’t get me wrong I have been for a ride and was impressed and have sat in the drivers seat.
I think it is a fantastic vehicle and the choices of component suppliers are excellent. 
I have an X5 with this motor and it is great.
But if it didn’t drive as well as my 100 series I wouldn’t buy one, I know the turning circle will not be as tight.

 

[globalgregors]

Is anybody worried at all about buying a car that you haven’t driven

Engineering by Magna Steyr makes a huge difference for me on this one, particularly given their experience with manufacture of the G-Wagen.

 

[emax]

I have an X5 with this motor and it is great.

Do you have the petrol or the diesel?

 

[Marsbilda]

Diesel
bought it new
2011 model 
one of the best cars I have owned