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Trademark Infringement: INEOS Grenadier vs. Land Rover Defender | Trademark Screw-Ups

d1rty

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Trademark Infringement: INEOS Grenadier vs. Land Rover Defender | Trademark Screw-Ups

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlNHUK3Ots4

Found the breakdown of the trademark dispute between JRL and Ineos interesting, as well as how Ineos attacked the problem.  Had to wipe the grease off my monitor after.  But it was a fun watch.
 

Stu_Barnes

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Trying to trade mark something thats out of production is a bit rich. I think its more G Wagon than defender personally, flame me for that if you want. 

Just from a function over form point of view, there's only so many ways you can make a boxy off-road suv, slab sided, bluff front and rear, bonnet/hood length to accommodate easy access to powertrain, 4 doors and a rear split swing door (which I think is a great idea) and there you have it. Take your pick of the crop. 
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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JLR's "Trademark" claim on the Defender always struck me as a bit funny, especially when (as I understand it), the entire design for the original Land Rover was "Did you see those Jeeps during the war? Let's build one of those".

As Stu said, there's only so many ways you can build a boxy 4x4. JLR going after Ineos always felt like a bit of sour grapes to me. They COULD have made a mint if they licensed the design to Ratfcliffe as he originally asked. They chose not to. They COULD have made a decent income if they reinvented the Defender in the same vein as the Grenadier, and called the new Defender the Discovery.

Instead of making choices that would enable people to have the tool they need to live their lives, they chose to sue to prevent that tool from ever being available. That rubs me the wrong way significantly enough to have likely cost them a customer. 

Don't get me wrong I still love Land Rover vehicles, and honestly I wouldn't mind a new Defender as that would likely meet my needs almost as well as the Grenadier, but the behaviour of JLR corporate has left me with a sour taste in my mouth. If I do go New Defender (or any other JLR product), odds are good that it'll be a waiting game on the used market for me. 
 

Spjnr

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Completely agree with it being a bitter move from land rover. As you say, they had no intention of continuing the old defenders tradition, and replaced it with a discovery. Its like a child getting upset with his friend playing with a toy that he didn't want 5 seconds ago ?

A lot of JLRs reluctance probably came from board meetings packed full of out of touch business school grads, who saw the luxury SUV as the only way to take the defender. Whereas ineos doesn't have that problem, having Ratcliffe as commander in chief, he saw an opportunity and took it.

Now JLR shouldn't be bitter, they have to play the game with he vehicle they thought was better. We'll wait and see
 

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The interesting thing for me will be the durability of the new Defender compared to the Grenadier. I'm specifically thinking of when you invariably prang it. how easy will a front wing on the Defender be to repair compared to the Grenadier. 

I seem to remember form my sheet metal work class a long time ago that straight's lines are easier to repair than graceful curves....
 

Pfk

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I think the reason they never licensed their designs of the old defender to ratcliffe or others because JLR still at any time may bring back the old defender back again with an updated version or as a homage to the past mighty defender.. depending on how big they see the market is, I personally don’t think we have seen the end of the true defender from jlr, not that the new one isn’t great , less for purpose, more for pleasure and comfort maybe
 

DCPU

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At the time of ending Defender production, they were asked about any future models but they were quite categorical ~ it was dead and laid to rest.

I think after Ineos started the Grenadier and to bolster any legal actions it was taking in various markets around the world, it decided this was a good idea:

Classic Defender revived as 567bhp road-legal rally-raider
IMG_20230110_181313.jpg
 

Krabby

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At the time of ending Defender production, they were asked about any future models but they were quite categorical ~ it was dead and laid to rest.

I think after Ineos started the Grenadier and to bolster any legal actions it was taking in various markets around the world, it decided this was a good idea:

Classic Defender revived as 567bhp road-legal rally-raider
View attachment 7799972
Shape aside, the above has nothing in common with the proper Defender it looks like. Different frame, suspension, engine, trans, etc but most importantly, a completely different ethos. If JLR wants to, in essence, “compete” in the market left by the original Defender’s exit, a £200,000 Bowler is not the path. The Grenadier manages to fill that void with a more capable vehicle that is modern is every way without being beholden to computer-reliant ability.
 

Pfk

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did not know of this defender being made, 567hp v8, ouf, driving an engine really..
thanks for sharing 👍
 

Cheshire cat

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Trying to trade mark something thats out of production is a bit rich. I think its more G Wagon than defender personally, flame me for that if you want.

Just from a function over form point of view, there's only so many ways you can make a boxy off-road suv, slab sided, bluff front and rear, bonnet/hood length to accommodate easy access to powertrain, 4 doors and a rear split swing door (which I think is a great idea) and there you have it. Take your pick of the crop.
When people ask what it looks like I have started saying’G-Wagon’.
 

emax

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Shape aside, the above has nothing in common with the proper Defender it looks like.
(y)

That was my first thought: Was does it have in common with a, say, 2016 TD4?

The shape.
 

emax

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I think the IG has the genes of a G-Wagen and a classic Defender.

But it is undoubtedly in a class of its own. A new class. It's a new car, a new product. And as such, it is, as Sir Jim says, the "Spiritual Successor" to the classic Defender.

At its best.

With emphasis on "spiritual". Say: ghist.
 

Jean Mercier

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I think the reason they never licensed their designs of the old defender to ratcliffe or others because JLR still at any time may bring back the old defender back again with an updated version or as a homage to the past mighty defender.. depending on how big they see the market is, I personally don’t think we have seen the end of the true defender from jlr, not that the new one isn’t great , less for purpose, more for pleasure and comfort maybe
If the Grenadier is doing what we expect from it, "a modern new Defender look-alike", and if it is reliable (the Defender had indeed a doubtful reputation, that why I never thought of buying one although I like the car), a revival of the Defender will be a dead end. (speculative opinion).
I am very grateful to Jim Ratcliffe that he dared to put his money on this project!
 

emax

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It' simply too late for a revival of the classic Defender. Ineos has filled and closed tha gap.

And JLR has wasted the glorious name of the Defender for what they offer now.
 
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Tazzieman

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It' simply too late for a revival of the clsssic Defender. Ineos has filled and closed tha gap.

And JLR has wasted the glorious name of the Defender for what they offer now.
Had they defended the Defender the Grenadier wouldn't have broken through the defences!
Basically , Jim did go into battle.
 

bigleonski

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I think the IG has the genes of a G-Wagen and a classic Defender.

But it is undoubtedly in a class of its own. A new class. It's a new car, a new product. And as such, it is, as Sir Jim says, the "Spiritual Successor" to the classic Defender.

At its best.

With emphasis on "spiritual". Say: ghist.
Nah sorry, I think that’s a bit of a wank.

From my perspective.
The IG is a blend between a 70 series landcruiser that everyone wants, and a 200 series landcruiser that everyone buys.

I don’t want to associate it with land rover as for me, that just infers poor reliability, shit ergonomics, and rough as guts driving, albeit a very capable off road bus.

If I get the reliability of a toyota, and the soul of a defender, then I’ll be as happy as a pig in mud.


Sorry if this is a ramble as I’ve been at a wine lunch for 4 1/2 hours. 😂😂😂
 

DCPU

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Shape aside, the above has nothing in common with the proper Defender it looks like. Different frame, suspension, engine, trans, etc but most importantly, a completely different ethos. If JLR wants to, in essence, “compete” in the market left by the original Defender’s exit, a £200,000 Bowler is not the path. The Grenadier manages to fill that void with a more capable vehicle that is modern is every way without being beholden to computer-reliant ability.
Don't disagree ~ I was merely pointing out how it was presented by JLR and connecting the dots to it's trademark claims.
 

DCPU

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did not know of this defender being made, 567hp v8, ouf, driving an engine really..
thanks for sharing 👍
I'm not sure if any were ever built, it's all been very quiet since the launch 2 years ago?
 

Pfk

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If the Grenadier is doing what we expect from it, "a modern new Defender look-alike", and if it is reliable (the Defender had indeed a doubtful reputation, that why I never thought of buying one although I like the car), a revival of the Defender will be a dead end. (speculative opinion).
I am very grateful to Jim Ratcliffe that he dared to put his money on this project!
i think the gratitude to Sir Jim is unanimous around this forum to say the least... i see the logic to the dead end of the (old) defender, but i think there are the brand loyalists who will jump on a new (old) defender edition, for whom they may revive down the line for, possibly the electric route as well for the new defenders and reviving the gasoline/ diesel old defender for work..
in my opinion from a business perspective, if your shelving a product for good, and someone wants to pay you to use that discontinued product for its same intent, and you disagree to that, then you shouldn't be in business, unless there are ulterior motives for this product...
 
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