The Question Thread for 'Greg Clark INEOS Automotive USA Chat (webinar series)'

[Fidei Defensor]

The answer to this question has already been given by Greg Clark:
View attachment 7798889
Listen for yourself:

Answering Your Questions

ineosgrenadier.com

Cool! I had watched this when it came out, but (senior moment!) I forgor they had made that committment!

 

[DCPU]

I think most of us are technically seniors, so we'll all be guilty of having them. I hadn't remembered he had said this, until I watched the video again for an unrelated issue, and I remembered this post.

 

[klarie]

In the past - it was like so - prices were driven by dealers - in Germany - often on a discount to MSRP, - sometimes significant.
It has changed now- in particular demanded cars are perhaps higher.. so this means either you wait - or you could get it immediately at a much higher price.
The US I assume its very much the same. Some cars where is no demand - they re sell perhaps cheaper - but those demanded get a markup.
This however - is unintended by the manufacturers - because - the markup on retail price is on the reputation, so car is considered as over expensive. And as people may not afford it - they go to competition vehicles or something else and the production planning and an expected market share cannot be achieved because the dealers cannot be controlled. - Also - the markup - "win" is at dealer not at the manufacturer.
Seriously when I purchase products - I order whenever possible as direct as possible. The people who make ist, develop it, should also have the earnings. A dealer should only charge for the contribution. So a handling fee related to the true work. In regard to Grenadier there is virtually no risk at the dealer's side. Full stop.
Considering this - indeed the US-Market as free at is considered in the world - is much more protected and regulated. But the more manufacturers go on a different concept. Even if manufacturers create a subdivison "dealers" - to circumvent the legislation somehow.. I assume the indirect sales regulation in the US will perhaps lifted sooner than later. - If I would live in a state that is regulated and state next door can sell directly .. I would purchase there and find my way to transport and register.. ..

 

[RotorOver]

My position is that I will not pay above MSRP for a new vehicle. I am cross-shopping the Grenadier with the Ford Bronco and was a day three reservation holder (15 July 2020) for that vehicle. I was able to secure a 3% below invoice deal through one of the three most active Ford dealerships on Bronco6G (Bronco, 6th Generation forum) which is still valid when many were/are still paying $5K-$15K mark-ups or more. I was waiting for the painted hard top to be released, so I left my reservation in a non-production status (Ford code - 99) until the MY23 model year when us remaining reservation holdouts were forced to put an order in despite the fact they only released the painted hardtop on a single trim, which I wasn't interested in. The whole process was very much mucked up by Ford on multiple levels and further exacerbated by world wide supply chain woes, so I've seen how bad it can be done. I say all that to say the idea behind a group buy or the idea there will be a dealer or two who chooses to sell at MSRP are both valid and probable and the fact this forum exists is very powerful for sharing that kind of information and attracting the right kind of dealerships to sell at a fair price due some organized customer involvement in the process. I'm leaning toward the Grenadier at this point based on my personal needs, but if things start to go south I'm not going down with the ship this time!

 

[DCPU]

I say all that to say the idea behind a group buy or the idea there will be a dealer or two who chooses to sell at MSRP are both valid and probable and the fact this forum exists is very powerful for sharing that kind of information and attracting the right kind of dealerships to sell at a fair price due some organized customer involvement in the process.

As it's been explained currently every individual will get the chance to order directly from/with Ineos when ordering opens to the public as dealerships won't be set up by then to take orders direct. Orders will then later be "passed" to dealerships on the understanding that they honour pricing commitments.

Maybe this is a clever way for Ineos to circumvent dealers upping prices for the initial early adoptors? Maybe this is the equivalent price "lock in/loyalty bonus" we've seen in the RoW?

 

[RotorOver]

As it's been explained currently every individual will get the chance to order directly from/with Ineos when ordering opens to the public as dealerships won't be set up by then to take orders direct. Orders will then later be "passed" to dealerships on the understanding that they honour pricing commitments.

Maybe this is a clever way for Ineos to circumvent dealers upping prices for the initial early adoptors? Maybe this is the equivalent price "lock in/loyalty bonus" we've seen in the RoW?

I really do hope that is the case.

 

[DaveB]

No dealers in North America yet but The Falkland Islands have one
Falklands 4 x 4
That would be the tiny remote island off the coast of Argentina which is still part of Great Britain.

 

[Deleted User Account.]

As crazy as it sounds, people in the U.S. often travel considerable distance to buy a car, in order to avoid local markups or if they find a good deal far away. Our dealership model could really use an overhaul...

I live in Georgia, bought my truck in New Mexico. Flew out and drove it home. Saved me about $7k compared to what dealers wanted for it here. Not crazy at all.

 

[Jean Mercier]

No dealers in North America yet but The Falkland Islands have one
Falklands 4 x 4
That would be the tiny remote island off the coast of Argentina which is still part of Great Britain.

Don't say that to an Argentinian ...
(Picture taken in 1984 while I was hitchhiking in the South of Argentina)

 

[DaveB]

Don't say that to an Argentinian ... View attachment 7799055
(Picture taken in 1984 while I was hitchhiking in the South of Argentina)

I think Argentina was pretty much a mess at the time and the government decided invading the Falklands would divert the attention of their population and give them something to cheer about.
surprisingly the UK was in a similar situation and they were the ones who ended up cheering.
Shame so many people had to suffer on both sides.

 

[Jean Mercier]

I agree 100%

The only Argentinian I met who doubted about that "Malvina" war, was a soldier who had been fighting there, and wounded: het told me "I don't know why we were fighting for some remote rocks"!

 

[Eric]

I agree 100%

The only Argentinian I met who doubted about that "Malvina" war, was a soldier who had been fighting there, and wounded: het told me "I don't know why we were fighting for some remote rocks"!

Probably the offshore minerals found in Falkland Island territorial waters, and the fact following 2 referenda's the Islanders voted 98% to remain British.

 

[Jean Mercier]

Probably the offshore minerals found in Falkland Island territorial waters, and the fact following 2 referenda's the Islanders voted 98% to remain British.

Yes of course, that's right too, there are around the Argentinian coastline (on land) a lot of oil derricks, so probably there is also petrol around the Falklands. Or other things. And the people living there are mainly British.

 

[DaveB]

Probably the offshore minerals found in Falkland Island territorial waters, and the fact following 2 referenda's the Islanders voted 98% to remain British.

I have to admit it was the guttsiest thing a country has done in many a year
i like in the movie when the SAS hit the Iranian embassy Margaret was sitting watching TV with them (from memory)

 

[Jean Mercier]

Beware ... we are going off topic

 

[emax]

while I was hitchhiking in the South of Argentina

Have you ever worked regularly in your life?

 

[Jean Mercier]

Yes, but South America was my longest break: 1,5 years spending my savings and travelling as cheap as possible, that was 2 years after getting my engineering degree, the best period of my life! (1984-1985). It's during that period that I fell alove with the capabilities of 4X4, espcially the old Toyota Landcruiser, that I never drove myself.
Australia was my second longest break: 2 months, some 10 years ago.
All the rest were regular holidays of weeks to max one month! Last very nice trip was some 4 years ago, 1 month Albania.

Edited: I am retired since April 1, 2022, but I continue to work, but not as an engineer

 

[emax]

You got it right. Kudos!

 

[AZGrenadier]

I would like to know if I put in another reservation fee and sit on it for a while if/when the truck comes out can I apply it to that.

 

[MarksGrenadier]

Very concerning that INEOS will have no control over the pricing. Its the one thing they need to have control over. I expect many will drop off the reservation list with this approach. There are huge ADM add-ons by dealers based on demand and short supply so we will likely see $ 10K to 25K markups over MSRP until production picks up and demand goes down. There are many car flippers here that get early allocations and immediately sell the car on the secondary market.

For example a Base Mercedes G550 G wagon is getting 20 - 50K markup, G63 is 50 - 100K over MSRP with wait times of 1-2 years on a custom order.
Porsche has zero inventory of 911's in the showroom and theres wait times on Turbos / Turbo s vehicles is over 1.5 years with markups ranging from 25 - 100K over.
My neighbor just bought a new Ford Bronco and I believe he paid about 20K over. Ford Raptors are at least 25K over.
Even for fleet buyers like my company the best we can do on ordering 20 new Ford F250's a year is MSRP, where we were getting 10K under on fleet in the past.
The dealers here are out to make as much as they can and all the cool special models are getting big markups. If a rebuilt 110 defender 1993 model gets over 100K, what do you think will happen with this Grenadier?

Ominous sign, I wish they would control the price for the early reservation holders at a minimum. Going to another deals does not solve the problem as their wait times simply increase when everyone wants on the list, and then they start marking the vehicle up too.

The early advertising was in the 50- 60K range, now over 80K Euro and with markup 100K???

I hope they figure this part out, its not like the dealers you have in Europe where the price they list is what you pay.