The Question Thread for 'Greg Clark INEOS Automotive USA Chat (webinar series)'

[bitteroot77]

I think its time to have a serious conversation on group buy with us concern of the mark up. I don't know if you saw my ealier post but I came across what might be the first USA Ineos dealer based in GA. Once dealers are announced, we need to identify a dealer or two base on proximity to highest number of Ineos buyers and talk to them about group buy at MSRP.

This is a neat idea. So, for example, everyone in the PNW could get together with one dealer and get all their Grennies on order at the same time? I'm betting Seattle or Denver will get a dealership. In any event, this should be something brought up to Ineos, I would think. Good idea!

 

[Krabby]

Exactly. It could be a few different dealers or just one that will come through for us. I do believe Stu was taking the lead on it but I’m not sure.

 

[ADVAW8S]

A way you can do it, for example, PNW has 25 buyers. We could hire a car hauler to load up at a dealership and ship it to PNW and drop them off in Seattle. Then ppl from Oregon and Washington could pick up or vice versa, delivery to Portland.

 

[Inez]

Just a quick counterpoint. The main incentive for a dealer to become a dealer is for unit sales. If that incentive is removed, we may end up with only 1 or 2 dealers across the country. That could prove problematic for service and warranty work. Just thoughts, not advocating for dealer "market adjustment fees". However, profit is not a bad word.

Edit: I understand that the previous poster was advocating to purchase at MSRP. I want to get a Grenadier for the least $ like everyone else, I also want excited and successful dealers around the country for support and accessories(read, USA sized T-Shirts). LOL

 

[painter]

Just a quick counterpoint. The main incentive for a dealer to become a dealer is for unit sales. If that incentive is removed, we may end up with only 1 or 2 dealers across the country. That could prove problematic for service and warranty work. Just thoughts, not advocating for dealer "market adjustment fees". However, profit is not a bad word.

Well, fireworks for the dealer !

I'd hope a prospective dealer would have a business plan that they could profit under [the] MSRP [model] rather than take it on as pure speculation.

For me it's the waiting, waiting, being used for ordering (and contributing to creating interest), having my order offered to someone else at a markup first, then given the ultimatum of matching the demand price or losing out.

That scenario doesn't sit well with me. Others will feel differently and I'm ok with that. For this car, knowing the price is an important part of my purchase decision.

Going to an auction or placing a bid on an item would be a different thing.

[Edit]

 

[Krabby]

Just a quick counterpoint. The main incentive for a dealer to become a dealer is for unit sales. If that incentive is removed, we may end up with only 1 or 2 dealers across the country. That could prove problematic for service and warranty work. Just thoughts, not advocating for dealer "market adjustment fees". However, profit is not a bad word.

Edit: I understand that the previous poster was advocating to purchase at MSRP. I want to get a Grenadier for the least $ like everyone else, I also want excited and successful dealers around the country for support and accessories(read, USA sized T-Shirts). LOL

In the US, even buying at list often feels like getting ripped off, but in these times paying MSRP seems to be the norm. However, from the dealers’ perspective, who would want to sell cars that can only generate profits if sold above list?

I’m no expert by any means, but dealers make a fair chunk of change without jacking up market fees, so in my eyes that’s flat out greed. I can appreciate their desire to make money-just as I appreciate the buyers’ desire to save money-but I find the whole car buying experience to be disappointing. It’s frustrating in the sense that I do not need to wheel and deal to buy anything else in my life (bar real estate).

 

[ADVAW8S]

In the US, even buying at list often feels like getting ripped off, but in these times paying MSRP seems to be the norm. However, from the dealers’ perspective, who would want to sell cars that can only generate profits if sold above list?

I’m no expert by any means, but dealers make a fair chunk of change without jacking up market fees, so in my eyes that’s flat out greed. I can appreciate their desire to make money-just as I appreciate the buyers’ desire to save money-but I find the whole car buying experience to be disappointing. It’s frustrating in the sense that I do not need to wheel and deal to buy anything else in my life (bar real estate).

Dealers purchase a car well below MSRP. Using what I know, bicycle industry, you purchase a bike at 250 based on 100 bikes purchased. If you purchase 30 bikes the cost for bike is 375. Then the bike company states you can sell it at 525 or MSRP. The more bikes you order at one time, the lower your purchase cost will be but you must pay for them right away or apply for credit from the bike company to cover your total cost. Those bikes can be delivered through out the year. Using that example, I think there will be plenty of ppl who will buy from a dealer who are not on this forum. The first adopter(us) would be a one time purchase similar to what ceartin bronco dealers did for buyers.

 

[Inez]

To clarify my post and position, I am also not advocating for above MSRP markups. I also realize that no one here was looking for discounts below MSRP by discussing a group buy.
I was just expressing my concern about concentrating all our purchases to a few dealers and what that might do to the dealer network.

 

[Lemon35]

So, for example, everyone in the PNW could get together with one dealer and get all their Grennies on order at the same time? I'm betting Seattle or Denver will get a dealership.

I spent a couple hours yesterday reading on taxes and such per state. I couldn't recommend buying a vehicle in Washington (WA) State and registering it out of state (home state) because WA will charge a sales tax independent of a vehicle registration tax. Example: buy in Seattle and register in Portland you'll pay tax twice, once for sale and once for registration. This was my understanding after some research, please correct me if anyone has more knowledge on the subject.

I will personally be looking to purchase the vehicle in Oregon because it has no sales tax - register in Florida (home state) because the FL law affords a tremendous tax advantage to Military service members assigned out of FL.

Just for the extra paperwork I would be willing to pay a premium to an Oregon Dealer (cough cough) if any are watching forums. Unfortunately due the added complexity I doubt a group buy would benefit from my participation.

Lots of great feedback on this thread so far, glad to see smart individuals already working through the problem set.

 

[painter]

Dealers purchase a car well below MSRP. Using what I know, bicycle industry, you purchase a bike at 250 based on 100 bikes purchased. If you purchase 30 bikes the cost for bike is 375. Then the bike company states you can sell it at 525 or MSRP. The more bikes you order at one time, the lower your purchase cost will be but you must pay for them right away or apply for credit from the bike company to cover your total cost. Those bikes can be delivered through out the year. Using that example, I think there will be plenty of ppl who will buy from a dealer who are not on this forum. The first adopter(us) would be a one time purchase similar to what ceartin bronco dealers did for buyers.

I'm thinking the it will be different, in that dealers, at least for a year or so, might not stock a lot of inventory (partly because of production) or commit to an allocation.

With our preorders the dealer takes less risk. The car I order I will pay for. But if the dealer chooses to offer that same car to the highest bidder then I've been played.

An environment of market adjustment charges may also attract money laundering which has been a thing in my area. Maybe a quick flip before I even pick up the car.

 

[Inez]

Maybe we can all order our Grenadiers in hot pink and then they won't be able to sell them to someone else.

And then...we get a group buy on repainting them to our liking!!

 

[Lemon35]

For me it's the waiting, waiting, being used for ordering (and contributing to creating interest), having my order offered to someone else at a markup first, then given the ultimatum of matching the demand price or losing out.

That scenario doesn't sit well with me.

[Edit]

I completely agree with you on this.

My order won't be committed to a dealer until I have a signed contract on it. I am not willing to factory order anything and then have a bidding war or price negotiation after the fact.

 

[ADVAW8S]

I completely agree with you on this.

My order won't be committed to a dealer until I have a signed contract on it. I am not willing to factory order anything and then have a bidding war or price negotiation after the fact.

That is the most important part and that is a contract signed for a group buy with the price agreed upon at set price.

 

[IG_in_AZ]

First post, newbie here. Paid my reservation the first hour I could, so I'm all in on the IG.

I was under the impression, based upon our European siblings, that the configuration and purchase were done via IG's website and that the agent (not dealer!) was only there to complete the paperwork, which I'm assuming capturing signatures for contract purposes. If they decide to go with a US style dealer model where the dealers can markup the cost, I'll definitely not be a happy camper.

That reply where she states that "We will not have control over the pricing," Does she not represent Ineos? If Ineos doesn't have control over the pricing of the product Ineos is manufacturing and selling, then who does?!?!?

 

[Traffic]

First post, newbie here. Paid my reservation the first hour I could, so I'm all in on the IG.

I was under the impression, based upon our European siblings, that the configuration and purchase were done via IG's website and that the agent (not dealer!) was only there to complete the paperwork, which I'm assuming capturing signatures for contract purposes. If they decide to go with a US style dealer model where the dealers can markup the cost, I'll definitely not be a happy camper.

That reply where she states that "We will not have control over the pricing," Does she not represent Ineos? If Ineos doesn't have control over the pricing of the product Ineos is manufacturing and selling, then who does?!?!?

Most states have franchise laws that require new car sales to be through independent dealers. In other words, it's illegal for a manufacturer to sell direct to consumers. Something about consumer protection, having someone accountable in the local market, and all that.

Tesla is a notable exception, selling driect to consumers, and getting some states to relax those requirements because the "environment" and "technology." But its not totally settled for Tesla and theres still lawsuits pending in several states.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

1. What does Ineos plan to do to prevent dealer markups?

---

Thank you very much for contacting INEOS Automotive.

Link: Buying The Grenadier | INEOS Grenadier USA

We will not have control over the pricing for the Grenadier unfortunately.

Thanks,

Amanda

INEOS Grenadier Customer Service

OK: this, to me, might be enough for me to forget about the Grenadier! What kind of crap is it that they say they cannot control pricing? Does that mean I cannot order at MSRP? After putting a reservation and then, likely a deposit? Are Ineos not able to select dealers who are willing to stick to the MSRP??? Can they not offer on-line pricing and ordering, with your choice of dealer to have the vehicle delivered?

 

[painter]

That reply where she states that "We will not have control over the pricing," Does she not represent Ineos? If Ineos doesn't have control over the pricing of the product Ineos is manufacturing and selling, then who does?!?!?

That statement gave me pause also. Short answer to who does is, the dealer - with respect to the consumer (I'm assuming that's what is meant)

Ineos controls the dealer/agent/wholesale cost (although they may claim they are only passing on supplier costs etc). One would expect the consumer price they announce allows for a suitable margin for the dealer/agent. That might be higher for dealer distribution models.

 

[DaveB]

OK: this, to me, might be enough for me to forget about the Grenadier! What kind of crap is it that they say they cannot control pricing? Does that mean I cannot order at MSRP? After putting a reservation and then, likely a deposit? Are Ineos not able to select dealers who are willing to stick to the MSRP??? Can they not offer on-line pricing and ordering, with your choice of dealer to have the vehicle delivered?

The entire concept of how the US dealer network is set up is to stop manufacturers from controlling pricing
Ineos want to control the pricing but the US system won’t allow them to.

 

[Max]

OK: this, to me, might be enough for me to forget about the Grenadier! What kind of crap is it that they say they cannot control pricing? Does that mean I cannot order at MSRP? After putting a reservation and then, likely a deposit? Are Ineos not able to select dealers who are willing to stick to the MSRP??? Can they not offer on-line pricing and ordering, with your choice of dealer to have the vehicle delivered?

If only your dealer network had excepted the Ineos system, you would be seeing Grenadiers sooner.

 

[DCPU]

OK: this, to me, might be enough for me to forget about the Grenadier! What kind of crap is it that they say they cannot control pricing? Does that mean I cannot order at MSRP? After putting a reservation and then, likely a deposit? Are Ineos not able to select dealers who are willing to stick to the MSRP??? Can they not offer on-line pricing and ordering, with your choice of dealer to have the vehicle delivered?

The answer to this question has already been given by Greg Clark:

Listen for yourself:

Answering Your Questions

ineosgrenadier.com