So, knowing what you know, would you buy it again?

[Commodore]

We shall find out I’m sure. Someone with bigger tires and stock suspension will blow a driveshaft somewhere at some point.

I have bigger tires and stock suspension and the warranty replaced my driveshaft.

 

[abbeyroad]

I have bigger tires and stock suspension and the warranty replaced my driveshaft.

I know, thus why I tagged you.

That was then, this dude's quote is now.

 

[LabRat]

Not downplaying the CV issue, but trying to wrap my head around the issue. The IG is a very capable vehicle in stock form and even better with minor modifications. In order to come close, most competitors - Jeep/Toyota - would require even more modifications. None of those modifications would be covered under warranty and in many cases would void specific waranties.

Is the CV an issue, sure, how big of an issue relative to the number on the road remains to be seen. Am I missing something?

 

[Dokatd]

Not downplaying the CV issue, but trying to wrap my head around the issue. The IG is a very capable vehicle in stock form and even better with minor modifications. In order to come close, most competitors - Jeep/Toyota - would require even more modifications. None of those modifications would be covered under warranty and in many cases would void specific waranties.

Is the CV an issue, sure, how big of an issue relative to the number on the road remains to be seen. Am I missing something?

You are missing that the way Ineos designed the front housing you are screwed. Jeeps can be lifted 2" without much fuss. Jeeps can operate at full travel in stock form without pinching their CV boots etc etc. A stock Rubicon is vastly more off-road capable than a Grenadier both in stock form. If you want to talk just Overlanding, then sure the Grenadier is larger and carry's more. This is all mission dependent and makes neither better or worse on the broad scale of possible missions.

The Grenadier cannot match a Jeep simply due to a horrible design choice on the front axle. Had they dialed in a bit more caster we could easily point the pinion up a touch and still have reasonable steering without killing CV joints. Regardless of that the front axle should have had more caster anyways.

 

[LabRat]

You are missing that the way Ineos designed the front housing you are screwed. Jeeps can be lifted 2" without much fuss. Jeeps can operate at full travel in stock form without pinching their CV boots etc etc. A stock Rubicon is vastly more off-road capable than a Grenadier both in stock form. If you want to talk just Overlanding, then sure the Grenadier is larger and carry's more. This is all mission dependent and makes neither better or worse on the broad scale of possible missions.

The Grenadier cannot match a Jeep simply due to a horrible design choice on the front axle. Had they dialed in a bit more caster we could easily point the pinion up a touch and still have reasonable steering without killing CV joints. Regardless of that the front axle should have had more caster anyways.

Triue in some respects - you pretty sure need to get into a Rubicon in order to get lockers, I don't think they are available on the lower models even as an option. You can get 35" tires as an option though.

 

[chtucker]

Quoting myself, this could be problematic. But anyway, this is the kind of crap that worries me about Modern Vehicles (Grenadier included). Heck, I even sometimes think about ditching the EFI on my NAS D90 and putting a Carb on the top..

View: https://youtu.be/8NumCKbaltQ?t=350

I watched that video and it was likely not a "code issue", it was likely a vehicle voltage/communication issue that was caused by a poor ground/low voltage condition. That is far from a stock rig with yards and yards of aftermarket wiring and BS "overlanding" gear. I would bet a few bucks and a a case of beer that that issue was owner induced. I lived in that area for over 15 years and that was my backyard.

 

[Dokatd]

Triue in some respects - you pretty sure need to get into a Rubicon in order to get lockers, I don't think they are available on the lower models even as an option. You can get 35" tires as an option though.

You can add lockers to any jeep for a pretty reasonable price through the aftermarket. But yes the Rubicon is the only one stock with lockers.

 

[LabRat]

You can add lockers to any jeep for a pretty reasonable price through the aftermarket. But yes the Rubicon is the only one stock with lockers.

Just tried to build one. Unless I'm missing it, no way to add differential lockers on the non-Rubicon models except a 2 door Willy's and that is just a rear locker. They are standard on the Rubicons

 

[theWhiskeyRebel]

Personally, I think you are missing the point of the Grenadier. Sir Jim's design criteria wasn't to build another luxury SUV, it was to build a capable utility with respectable load capacity for expedition and utility service. Daily driver capable, but not focused on daily driver amenities.

EDIT: it was designed with this type of use in mind, not for impressing rich friends, or being seen on Hollywood Boulevard..

This is well said. I have zero sympathy for the complainers. You chose to purchase a new product from a new manufacturer. Did you not do your homework? Unless you purchased your Grenadier in the early days, there is no excuse for not being aware of potential quirks.

Yes, there are some quirks that I find irritating - such as the Auto Light Sensor and the bi-polar AC.

What does concerns me is:

• drive shaft angle - I'm hopeful the aftermarket will find a reasonable fix. Otherwise, I plan on carrying a spare for my offroad adventures.
• Dealer Service - when the day comes, I can only hope that my local dealer is capable. Otherwise, I'll have to find the next closest one.
• Ineos Automotive Longevity - If they fold, how will we get components that aren't provided by the aftermarket?
• Field Serviceable - I believed Ineos when they said they were building something that could be repaired in the field. But this does not appear to be the case. The service manual is just now becoming available. But will some "limp mode" electronic thingy cause problems? Will I void the warranty by doing a field repair?

However, after considering the above, I chose to accept the risk and drive away in a new IG.

I can't answer the "would you buy it again" question. I have only had mine for 3 weeks and 960 miles. I purchased an offroader that will also second as my daily driver. Meaning the offroad capabilities are more important to me than the creature comforts desired for the urban jungle. In the last 10 years, I went from a LR4 to a Jeep Gladiator as my offroad journeys become more challenging. My Gladiator was an absolute beast with everything I threw at it. The IG has some big shoes to fill, but I was ready for a new project. Fingers crossed; I hope I didn't make a poor decision.

 

[WoodyD68]

Yes. I love it. Been great so far.

 

[LRNAD90]

I watched that video and it was likely not a "code issue", it was likely a vehicle voltage/communication issue that was caused by a poor ground/low voltage condition. That is far from a stock rig with yards and yards of aftermarket wiring and BS "overlanding" gear. I would bet a few bucks and a a case of beer that that issue was owner induced. I lived in that area for over 15 years and that was my backyard.

Toward the end of the video the poster indicates the dealer diagnosed and replaced a 'failed ECM'. Doesn't specify which one, but it failed again apparently a few months later. He has yet to post an update. Though I'm not sure I agree, or know anywhere enough about his build to draw that conclusion, you may very well be right. Frankly, I'm surprised the dealer didn't take that stance regardless of whether any aftermarket modifications were related to the failure or not, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a failure that nearly left him stranded and without any real resolution on the trail.

 

[Dokatd]

Just tried to build one. Unless I'm missing it, no way to add differential lockers on the non-Rubicon models except a 2 door Willy's and that is just a rear locker. They are standard on the Rubicons

Sorry, you misunderstood, you can purchase a number of different air, electric or mechanical lockers to fit any model of wrangler from aftermarket sources. For instance you can get air lockers from ARB that any off-road shop can install. This is what you had to do for Land Rovers back in the day. It's a very common upgrade. And it's cheaper than selecting the locker option on the Grenadier or buying a Rubicon.

 

[LabRat]

Sorry, you misunderstood, you can purchase a number of different air, electric or mechanical lockers to fit any model of wrangler from aftermarket sources. For instance you can get air lockers from ARB that any off-road shop can install. This is what you had to do for Land Rovers back in the day. It's a very common upgrade. And it's cheaper than selecting the locker option on the Grenadier or buying a Rubicon.

Of course you can, but my comment was about warranty coverage and the need to upgrade others that would not be covered under the original vehicle's warranty.

 

[chtucker]

Toward the end of the video the poster indicates the dealer diagnosed and replaced a 'failed ECM'. Doesn't specify which one, but it failed again apparently a few months later. He has yet to post an update. Though I'm not sure I agree, or know anywhere enough about his build to draw that conclusion, you may very well be right. Frankly, I'm surprised the dealer didn't take that stance regardless of whether any aftermarket modifications were related to the failure or not, but it doesn't change the fact that it was a failure that nearly left him stranded and without any real resolution on the trail.

Being in the electronics industry-- Random swapping and hoping is definitely a possibility... just to say you did something..

Every time I see a highly modified vehicle, its almost always the modification when it comes to electronics (I deal with about 2500 vehicles for police and fire, they are ALWAYS quick to blame the computer or radio for their problems and not the crappy wiring they have done).

 

[Dokatd]

Of course you can, but my comment was about warranty coverage and the need to upgrade others that would not be covered under the original vehicle's warranty.

Jeep will largely still cover Warranty if you slightly lift or add a locker. The installer of the locker should cover warranty associated with the locker install.

Regardless, these are items that companies warrant because the odds of failure during the warranty period are basically zero. And that's because they are based on tried and true designs that have been well proven in application.

Ineos is purportedly denying warranty based on going off-road to much or adding slightly larger tires.

 

[chtucker]

Jeep will largely still cover Warranty if you slightly lift or add a locker. The installer of the locker should cover warranty associated with the locker install.

Regardless, these are items that companies warrant because the odds of failure during the warranty period are basically zero. And that's because they are based on tried and true designs that have been well proven in application.

Ineos is purportedly denying warranty based on going off-road to much or adding slightly larger tires.

There were the same issues with Broncos at first as well. It’s not a corporate policy, it’s dealers interpreting things. The Bronco literally has an Easter egg written on the inner fender liner about “Lift me baby” yet dealers routinely deny warranty claims for larger tires.

The only thing unique about my experience with Ineos is that I have a dealer that is 30-45 minutes away. The first year has been painless.

We had two 2021 Broncos- they both leaked like sieves and both had software issues. I have 12 Fords, 2 Toyotas and Subaru incoming for my work fleet. The Toyotas have been painless, the Fords are PIA. But they are cheap on government contracts.

 

[Dokatd]

There were the same issues with Broncos at first as well. It’s not a corporate policy, it’s dealers interpreting things. The Bronco literally has an Easter egg written on the inner fender liner about “Lift me baby” yet dealers routinely deny warranty claims for larger tires.

The only thing unique about my experience with Ineos is that I have a dealer that is 30-45 minutes away. The first year has been painless.

We had two 2021 Broncos- they both leaked like sieves and both had software issues. I have 12 Fords, 2 Toyotas and Subaru incoming for my work fleet. The Toyotas have been painless, the Fords are PIA. But they are cheap on government contracts.

Ineos is intimately involved in the warranty process. That's why many have reported long waits to hear back from Ineos. My truck was in for over a week waiting for Ineos verdict about a brake issue.

Anyways, we don't need to get into the whole Ford thing, I own a small work fleet and non are ford. I don't have any government assistance for my trucks. My personal toy fleet also does not include ford. This is all very much by choice. Clearly I would not hold the new Bronco up to any high standard and I would never buy one. Nor would I buy a Jeep.

My Grenadier has been relatively painless to own after the first dealer visit or two. It largely just works, but it is severely flawed in ways that can't really be fixed, it's just stupid stuff that should never have been done the way it was done.

 

[255/85]

This is well said. I have zero sympathy for the complainers. You chose to purchase a new product from a new manufacturer. Did you not do your homework? Unless you purchased your Grenadier in the early days, there is no excuse for not being aware of potential quirks.

I tend to have the same attitude toward those just stepping up and complaining... until I remember how little I knew when I started driving 4-wheel drive vehicles. Everyone's a newbie at some point.

 

[LRNAD90]

Being in the electronics industry-- Random swapping and hoping is definitely a possibility... just to say you did something..

Every time I see a highly modified vehicle, its almost always the modification when it comes to electronics (I deal with about 2500 vehicles for police and fire, they are ALWAYS quick to blame the computer or radio for their problems and not the crappy wiring they have done).

Like I said, could very well be an issue created by user modifications, but I just don't know enough about the build to say. My point is simply that I'm not confident enough in the multiple electronic systems that when failed can leave so much of the vehicle function lost. While I acknowledge messing with the stock vehicles electrical system can make this more likely, I'm not convinced that similar issues cannot arise with stock vehicles, particularly when subjected to more intense offroad usage..