The Grenadier Forum

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Side lights

As if that would do any good!

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) Regulation 15. - (1) Every motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1991 shall be so constructed that every position lamp, side marker lamp, end-outline marker lamp and rear registration plate lamp with which the vehicle is fitted is capable of being switched on and off by the operation of one switch and, save as provided in paragraph (2), not otherwise.

(Para (2) is not relevant in this case).

Clearly the Grenadier does not comply with this since both the ignition switch and the light switch must be operated in order to activate the obligatory position lamps front and rear.
 
The question that rises, was it intended for there to be parking lights, as implied by the manual, ( albeit the manual often doesn't bear any resemblance to reality ) and subsequently the software programming inadvertently turned them off when it put the vehicle "to sleep". Which then begs the question if it does legally require them, how did it get type approval. I can't believe it has type approval if there is something non compliant. I am trying to find from where I was informed that " modern cars" did not require parking lights. And if they are required, why are they excluded from the MOT test.

Although it might sound pedantic, it is important to be clear that the issue is not "parking lights" per se (which have a specific legal definition and are optional), the issue concerns the ability to illuminate the mandatory front and rear position lamps when the vehicle is not running and/or is locked. The mandatory front and rear position lamps consist of the tail lamps, the rear number plate lamps and the front sidelamps, and there is no doubt that they are present on the Grenadier. However the law requires that the the mandatory front and rear position lamps (a) are operated by a single switch "and not otherwise", and (b) are illuminated whenever the vehicle is stationary on a road between sunset and sunrise unless the speed limit is 30mph or less.

The issue, in which I clearly failed to interest Customer Services in the slightest, is that two switches must be operated to illuminate the mandatory position lamps (which I shall abbreviate to MPLs), specifically the ignition switch and the light switch, as a consequence of which it is not possible to stop the vehicle and leave the MPLs illuminated unless both switches remain on, which means that the keys must be left in the car and the car cannot be locked.

I think it possible - albeit this is pure speculation - that the vehicles supplied for TA testing did have MPLs which operated as described in the owners' handbook and were therefore compliant but for some reason subsequently they were disabled in software. The lamps are evidently software controlled from the BCU and to leave them on would require the BCU to remain powered up. This is consistent with the warning in the handbook that leaving them on will drain the battery, which on first appearance is an odd statement since there are only six LED lamps which need to be on, and these should draw very little current and hence would not be expected to be a significant drain on the battery. If, however, the BCU and its associated systems - effectively the entire vehicle - have to remain powered then I imagine that the battery could well be drained fairly quickly and the warnign would be appropriate.

It seems to me (as an electronics/systems engineer by profession) therefore that it is plausible that the functioning of the lights was reprogrammed to avoid unintentional battery drain and that no-one has fully thought through the consequences.

I will attempt another communication with Customer Services tomorrow but today's experience did not raise my hopes. I have so far been very impressed with my dealer and will also approach the dealership to see if they would be prepared to raise this through whatever means is available to them. If all else fails, I might take a guess at Lynn Calder's email address in the hope that someone at least pretends to take this seriously.
 
As if that would do any good!

The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) Regulation 15. - (1) Every motor vehicle first used on or after 1st April 1991 shall be so constructed that every position lamp, side marker lamp, end-outline marker lamp and rear registration plate lamp with which the vehicle is fitted is capable of being switched on and off by the operation of one switch and, save as provided in paragraph (2), not otherwise.

(Para (2) is not relevant in this case).

Clearly the Grenadier does not comply with this since both the ignition switch and the light switch must be operated in order to activate the obligatory position lamps front and rear.
Good find. Those regulations are far more specific than the more general Construction and Use documentation.
 
I've replied to Customer Care pointing out that they appear to have misunderstood the issue and asking that they refer my enquiry to someone with the technical and regulatory knowledge to answer in a helpful way. Watch this space.....
 
I've replied to Customer Care pointing out that they appear to have misunderstood the issue and asking that they refer my enquiry to someone with the technical and regulatory knowledge to answer in a helpful way. Watch this space.....
So. have I
 
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