Side lights

[Riverswale]

Hi. This may sound a daft question. Is it possible to leave the side lights on (front and rear) without the ignition being on. I have tried but as soon as the ignition key is removed everything switches off except the follow me home lights ?. Would be useful when parking in an expose place.

 

[landmannnn]

It's a bit strange, the owners manual talks about the parking lights, but they do turn off when you lock with the key fob.


If you lock with the key they work as expected and the side lights stay on.
Nothing in the manual about that!

 

[Blackwolf]

Yes, it is strange. I left mine on accidentally the other day and was surprised to find them off when I returned. See also this thread from some time ago, which ran for three pages and concluded nothing:

M

Thread 'Parking light issues'

Oct 24, 2023

Getting more and more used to the functions or missing functions of my Grenadier I wanted to park on a completely dark road. If my fading memory is correct, in germany you have to switch your parking lights on in a situation like this. It is a matter of road-safety. I tried this with the Grenadier, but when I switched of the Ignition there is no possibility to turn on the exterior lights. The coming home/leaving home function only lasts several seconds. If I try to set the indicators, nothing happens. In my last cars this procedure activated the parking light for the chosen side. I did not...

• moehni
• lights parking parking lights
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Electrical, ECU, HVAC, Lights & Infotainment

• 
• 

Contrary to comments in the above thread it is still a legal requirement in the UK to leave sidelights or parking lights illuminated when parked in the normal direction of traffic at night on a road with a speed limit in excess of 30mph and I believe that the UK Construction & Use Regulations require parking/side lights to be fitted.

I am taking my car in for its first service on Wednesday and if I remember will ask the dealer if he knows the situation. It does appear that there has been a change in specification, possibly unintentional.

 

[Eric]

Yes, it is strange. I left mine on accidentally the other day and was surprised to find them off when I returned. See also this thread from some time ago, which ran for three pages and concluded nothing:

M

Thread 'Parking light issues'

Oct 24, 2023

Getting more and more used to the functions or missing functions of my Grenadier I wanted to park on a completely dark road. If my fading memory is correct, in germany you have to switch your parking lights on in a situation like this. It is a matter of road-safety. I tried this with the Grenadier, but when I switched of the Ignition there is no possibility to turn on the exterior lights. The coming home/leaving home function only lasts several seconds. If I try to set the indicators, nothing happens. In my last cars this procedure activated the parking light for the chosen side. I did not...

• moehni
• lights parking parking lights
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Electrical, ECU, HVAC, Lights & Infotainment

• 
• 

Contrary to comments in the above thread it is still a legal requirement in the UK to leave sidelights or parking lights illuminated when parked in the normal direction of traffic at night on a road with a speed limit in excess of 30mph and I believe that the UK Construction & Use Regulations require parking/side lights to be fitted.

I am taking my car in for its first service on Wednesday and if I remember will ask the dealer if he knows the situation. It does appear that there has been a change in specification, possibly unintentional.

I've seen a similar thread elsewhere when the potential of failing an MOT for not having functioning parking lights was raised. The conclusion via a current MOT examiner was: a) in the UK parking outside a 30mph zone at night legally requires parking lights to be on. b) parking lights in modern cars are NOT a legal requirement. c) if your car has parking lights they are subject to MOT testing and must work or is a test failure. Conclusion, modern cars without parking lights can not legally park on the carriageway outside a 30mph limit at night.

 

[Blackwolf]

I've just checked the MoT Testers' Manual and there is no requirement to check that any vehicle lights can operate with the engine stopped. There is of course no mention of "parking lights" as such since the law requires only "mandatory position lamps" and "mandatory end-outline marker lamps" and it would be one or other of these serving the function of parking lights, but as far as the MoT Test is concerned the tester mentioned above is correct.

I have also checked The Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations 1989 (as amended) and can confirm that Regulation 24 (1) (b) states that "no person shall .... allow to remain at rest, or cause or permit to be allowed to remain at rest, on a road any vehicle between sunset and sunrise unless every front position lamp, rear position lamp, rear registration plate lamp, side marker lamp and end-outline marker lamp with which the vehicle is required by these Regulations to be fitted is kept lit and unobscured." There are certain specific exceptions including roads with speed limits of 30mph or less, parking areas, etc., but the general regulation is as quoted.

It follows from this that as Eric rightly surmises, it would be illegal to park a Grenadier and leave it parked on a road with a speed limit greater than 30mph unless the ignition remained on (remembering that it is now another specific offense to leave the engine running unnecessarily when stationary*). It would not however fail the MoT test for the inability to leave the sidelights on.

* I imagine that you could argue that the need to comply with the RVLR(1989) made the running of the engine necessary.

 

[CRH]

Not checked on my Grenadier yet, but a lot of cars use the indicator stalk to turn parking lights on so that the road side lights only are on and less of a battery drain. So inefect, indicate which side of the vehicle you wish the lights to remain on and it might work.

 

[Eric]

Not checked on my Grenadier yet, but a lot of cars use the indicator stalk to turn parking lights on so that the road side lights only are on and less of a battery drain. So inefect, indicate which side of the vehicle you wish the lights to remain on and it might work.

That relates to the old parking at night in a built up area, ie 30mph, where it was necessary to leave a single side parking light on. That was repealled decades ago, as reflectors were deemed acceptable in lower speeds limits. Outside a 30mph limit both side/ parking lights must remain on, front ant rear.

 

[landmannnn]

As I said in post number 2:

If you lock with the key they work as expected and the side lights stay on.

 

[Blackwolf]

As I said in post number 2:

If you lock with the key they work as expected and the side lights stay on.

I wonder if my dealer knows this! I will ask later in the week.

 

[Blackwolf]

It's a bit strange, the owners manual talks about the parking lights, but they do turn off when you lock with the key fob.


If you lock with the key they work as expected and the side lights stay on.
Nothing in the manual about that!

Can you elaborate on how you make this work, please?

If just tested this on mine and if either the headlights or sidelights are on when I stop the engine all the lights go out and stay out however I lock. Once the engine is stopped operating the light switch doesn't operate the lights, so for example turning the switch from off to sidelights has no effect, and locking with the key leaves them off.

I cannot at present find any way on mine to have any exterior lights on with the engine stopped and the ignition off.

 

[landmannnn]

I had to go out and try it...

If I start the engine and turn the switch to sidelights, the sidelights stay on when I turn the ignition off.

Shut the door, sidelights stay on with key lock, go off with fob lock.

I thought the handbrake may make a difference, it didn't. It's a 2023 diesel BTW.

 

[Eric]

I had to go out and try it...

If I start the engine and turn the switch to sidelights, the sidelights stay on when I turn the ignition off.

Shut the door, sidelights stay on with key lock, go off with fob lock.

I thought the handbrake may make a difference, it didn't. It's a 2023 diesel BTW.

But do they go off in 10 minutes when the software goes to sleep . Locking with the key fob de-activates the software

 

[Blackwolf]

I had to go out and try it...

If I start the engine and turn the switch to sidelights, the sidelights stay on when I turn the ignition off.

Shut the door, sidelights stay on with key lock, go off with fob lock.

I thought the handbrake may make a difference, it didn't. It's a 2023 diesel BTW.

That's really strange! If I do the same on mine the lights go off when I switch off the ignition.

Was the door open when you stopped the engine (I didn't try that)?

I don't know if it makes a difference but I've disabled the headlights on on lock/unlock feature.

My vehicle is a 2023 petrol Trialmaster running the latest software (I'd have to check the version number).

 

[landmannnn]

That's really strange! If I do the same on mine the lights go off when I switch off the ignition.

Was the door open when you stopped the engine (I didn't try that)?

I don't know if it makes a difference but I've disabled the headlights on on lock/unlock feature.

My vehicle is a 2023 petrol Trialmaster running the latest software (I'd have to check the version number).

Door open, headlight delay set to 30 seconds, interior light switch in upper console set to on, seat belt off.

My software was updated a few weeks ago, still showing version 1946.

It is odd that they should be different.

 

[Blackwolf]

Thank you. I've just tried again:

1) door open, belt off, interior lights on auto, 'arrive home headlight' delay zero (i.e., off) >> Sidelights switch off with ignition.

2) As above except 'arrive home headlight' delay set to 20 seconds >> Sidelights stay on when ignition switched off, stay on when vehicle locked with key BUT extinguish autonomously approximately 2 minutes later.

I really thought that 2) was going to work!

Have you left yours to see how long they stay on?

 

[landmannnn]

Have you left yours to see how long they stay on?

No, will give it try.

 

[landmannnn]

Have you left yours to see how long they stay on?

OK, back to square 1, they turn off after a few minutes.
Remember these?

 

[Blackwolf]

Shame, I thought you'd cracked it!

I think the fact that the only exterior lights which work with the ignition off are the hazards is actually a serious safety issue as well as a potential legal issue. I can't see how the car gained type approval without parking lights which makes me wonder if this is a post-TA software change.

It's certainly worth a call to IA customer service and maybe worth reporting to DVSA. I think it is more worthy of a recall that the sticky door button business. I have never, ever, come across a vehicle where the sidelights need the ignition to be on.

 

[landmannnn]

The construction and use regulations require the hazards to be independent of the ignition switch, but no mention of side lights being able to operate with the ignition off.

A bit of googling suggests that some other manufacturers do this, but I had never heard of it before either.