Reviews Coming...

[DCPU]

imagine if even just one of those journalists ended up "dead in the water" due to water ingress into the engine (or any manner of other issue -- electronics for instance); this would be the equivalent of TFL Trucks' Defender saga which I have no doubt firmly hampered JLR's sales of the new Defender in North America.

I'd respectfully disagree. The type of journalist that gets invited to these events rarely bite the hand that feeds them.

At the new Defender launch in Namibia, one journalist broke a lower control arm, and they had to do a bush repair by cutting up a high lift jack (score one for the hi lift jack supporters) but not one of those on the trip mentioned it in copious online copy. It wasn't until well after the event a few photos leaked out:

The TFL example is a case in point, in that they were spending their own money on test vehicles and so had complete editorial freedom to say what they want. I don't think they get invited to many manufacturer press days.

But, Ineos has taken Snorkelled and Non-Snorkelled trucks through a proper wade -- not the most difficult one in the word of course

I struggle to call this a "proper" wade; but probably in a different sense to that in which you are suggesting. Yes it was a reasonable depth, but it was entirely an artificial wade in the sense they didn't need to do it to get anywhere. Evidenced by the fact you could see they returned by driving along the beach/foreshore.

If a group out there for a weekend drive did this, it would be labelled as irresponsible at best and possibly subject to legal penalty.

"Dirt, brake dust, traffic film residue and oil that is washed off are all pollutants.
Any cleaning agents you use (including those labelled biodegradable or traffic film removers) are very poisonous to river/marine life. If you cause pollution, you are breaking the law and spoiling your environment." quoted from the UK Environment Agency pollution prevention guidelines.

but it's a far cry from the artificial stream/mudpit dug with a backhoe that the JLR experience provides folks when they launch a new rig.

This is the equivalent event for the launch of the new Defender in Namibia:

 

[Wayneos]

Lord knows why?
I want a solid dependable off roader, but I don’t want to go back to the 1970’s.

I have no problem manually winding up a window. Less electrical stuff to go wrong. I admit controlling the rear and passenger windows electrically is handy, but I don't need the drivers window to be electric.

 

[Wayneos]

I have a customer who told me he hasn't even unzipped his awning bag in over 2 years

For a second there I thought 'awning bag' was Queensland slang for something...

 

[DCPU]

I have no problem manually winding up a window. Less electrical stuff to go wrong. I admit controlling the rear and passenger windows electrically is handy, but I don't need the drivers window to be electric.

I agree, puzzled me why on the old Defender you got electric front windows but manual winders for the rear seats - and the manual winders seem to have an excess of backlash such that they always drop a few mm over time.

 

[Tazzieman]

This is the equivalent event for the launch of the new Defender in Namibia:
View attachment 7801851

Did they retrieve the body?

 

[DCPU]

They winched him out later:

 

[Tazzieman]

They winched him out later:
View attachment 7801858

People try physics defying stunts...and generally fail

 

[DCPU]

Back on topic:

 

[DCPU]

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[G-Man]

They winched him out later:
View attachment 7801858

Hope that didn't end in the world's first wedgie fatality!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I think the photo amply illustrates that the water was nowhere near the wading depth in the one place that the metric has real significance ~ at the actual air intake.

It's the wading equivalent of sawing a person in half ~ mostly an optical illusion. The Grenadier was acting as a mobile breakwater so there was never any chance of any of those waves getting into the air intake.

It was not by chance that they drove in the direction they did. Nobody came back the other way.

Your confidence in the use of "never" is greater than mine - things go wrong all the time, especially when you try to make a car perform like a canoe. But like I said above, it's not the most impressive wade ever; it's just far more than most of the competition are willing to do, which is my overall point. Most other manufacturers who make "4x4 vehicles" would only ever show images of a wade like that on a TV commercial with the whole "professional driver, closed course" caveat at the bottom and plenty of movie magic. The fact that Ineos is willing to go through a wade suggests a high level of confidence in the vehicle, which I interpret as a good sign for customers.

 

[DCPU]

Nice bit of axle articulation:

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I'd respectfully disagree. The type of journalist that gets invited to these events rarely bite the hand that feeds them.

At the new Defender launch in Namibia, one journalist broke a lower control arm, and they had to do a bush repair by cutting up a high lift jack (score one for the hi lift jack supporters) but not one of those on the trip mentioned it in copious online copy. It wasn't until well after the event a few photos leaked out:
View attachment 7801850
The TFL example is a case in point, in that they were spending their own money on test vehicles and so had complete editorial freedom to say what they want. I don't think they get invited to many manufacturer press days.


I struggle to call this a "proper" wade; but probably in a different sense to that in which you are suggesting. Yes it was a reasonable depth, but it was entirely an artificial wade in the sense they didn't need to do it to get anywhere. Evidenced by the fact you could see they returned by driving along the beach/foreshore.

Good points about the journalists - I agree with you that they are likely going to be kind to ensure they get invited to the next time out, and who knows what will go "viral" after the fact -- it strikes me a lot of folks seem to want to see Ineos fail, but that was the case with the new Defender too. But, the photo of that hi-lift repair is an example of how impossible it is to keep stuff properly 'buried' these days. If there were major problems with the Gren on this journalist experience, we'd hear about them; maybe not in the first article but it didn't take long for that hi-lift story to come out.

I also agree with your take on it being an unnecessary wade, but again -- my point is that most other manufacturers won't come even close to this, which is confidence inspiring for end-users.

If a group out there for a weekend drive did this, it would be labelled as irresponsible at best and possibly subject to legal penalty.

"Dirt, brake dust, traffic film residue and oil that is washed off are all pollutants.
Any cleaning agents you use (including those labelled biodegradable or traffic film removers) are very poisonous to river/marine life. If you cause pollution, you are breaking the law and spoiling your environment." quoted from the UK Environment Agency pollution prevention guidelines.


This is the equivalent event for the launch of the new Defender in Namibia:
View attachment 7801851

They properly thrashed that new Defender in Namibia, and it proved it could (mostly) take it. The Namibia launch had me sold on them, actually -- In terms of stats, the new Defender is an unbeatable touring rig. Excellent wading depth, fantastic roof load strength, overwhelmingly good crash protection, and actual published information relating to this data so you know how much you can tow on and off-road; it's one of the few 4x4s on the market that is actually designed for what the commercials show it doing (Looking at you, jeep). But, it doesn't break properly; it appears that when things go wrong it sits down and requires a dealership to repair. Other than that complexity-driven "bad breaking" and the frequency of said breaking, it's probably one of the best vehicles on the road full stop, and it is for sure the best touring rig I could buy today here in Canada.

JLR was never nervous about the New Defender's capabilities - the tow hooks are strong enough to do a heli-lift, and they gleefully loaned James Bond a bakers dozen to be thrown around and rolled off road and the damn things kept running! They are fantastically robust rigs. Their only issue is reliability and bush-reparability; I'm hoping the ineos has them beat on the former but time will tell. Ineos definitely appears to have them beat on the latter. I would put the Grenadier and the New Defender in the same category, capability wise; the Jeep Wrangler sort of hangs on to the edges of that category but falls short on payload. Every other 4x4 on the North American market is more of a "don't go past the hubs" rig.

I've been careful to say "most" whenever I'm referring to the competition -- the New Defender, the Wrangler, and the Grenadier are in a class of their own; and the Wrangler is barely hanging onto that class because of it's paltry payload. Pretty much every other 4x4 on the market isn't a proper 4x4, but instead is a lifestyle vehicle with 4 wheel drive.

They don't take Tacomas or Canyons through lakes with journalists.

 

[DCPU]

I'm happy to be a cheerleader for Ineos but this wasn't anything really worth cheering about and actually completely jars when you add in the deliberate and unnecessary pollution.

Where's the tread lightly message from Ineos?

The marketing bods that set these stunts up probably have no idea of the issues surrounding 4x4 use in the countryside in the UK. No doubt the wading pictures will make a few front pages, provide ammunition to a few people, and it will be me having to defend my use of a 4x4 on a byway somewhere as a result.

 

[RoadBuilder]

Nice bit of axle articulation:
View attachment 7801890

I really like that color combination. May have to switch to that, from silver with a black roof. That assumes, of course, that Ineos offers the same colors in the US when it arrives here.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I'm happy to be a cheerleader for Ineos but this wasn't anything really worth cheering about and actually completely jars when you add in the deliberate and unnecessary pollution.

Where's the tread lightly message?

I think you are raising two points here.

The first is how artificial the Ineos launch has been for these journalists. Of course it's a closed course, and of course it's a planned route - just like the Namibia thing for JLR. It's not like they just showed up and went for a drive and of course there's some planning that goes into routes and such. I agree that it's not the most cheer-worthy of feats, but so far what we're seeing is I think more worth a cheer or two as compared to the TV commercials that show the jeep ripping through the woods, conquering every obstacle before rolling up to the campsite with a fire already roaring surrounded by good-looking smiling faces. If the mud doesn't fling just right, or if they end up rolling the jeep or damaging it while filming, they roll out a spare and do the shoot again, where there's no risk of failure because they just won't use those videos in the commercial. And if you have the audacity to take your own jeep off road based on what these commercials show you it's doing, Chrysler will point to the fine print in the commercial and tell you that since you've off-roaded your vehicle your warranty is void. The Scotland trip is not without it's staged/planned/structured elements for sure, but it's also not without real risk when contrasted with the marketing of the likes of Jeep, Ford, GM, etc. which are almost entirely reliant on these short commercials showing their vehicles doing impressive things, but that are entirely artificial and free from any potential consequence to the brand.

The second point you brought up is Tread Lightly - no argument from me. The occasional car crossing a stream once a season or so probably doesn't do significant harm, but the explosion of off-road enthusiasts in the last 10 years has changed that significantly and we're at constant risk of losing access to remote places that are having hundreds of cars crossing the same streams each day -- that for sure has an impact. I like to know the vehicle has the chops to do a crossing, because I've been in situations where that was the only way out, but if they can be avoided they should. It seems like this is unrelated to the overall topic though; again my overall point is that Ineos seems to be reasonably confident in the vehicle, and that's good news for us; I'm not getting the impression that they have made another "Lifestyle" 4x4 like the Tacoma or Colorado because if they had I feel this trip in Scotland wouldn't look the same.

 

[Tazzieman]

So to summarise the lake crossing in a one line sentence, "it done OK"

 

[DCPU]

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I want to see one winching itself up a dam. That advert/commercial alone sold me on the series3? Or was it the “new defender” when I was a kid.

 

[Krabby]

I want to see one winching itself up a dam. That advert/commercial alone sold me on the series3? Or was it the “new defender” when I was a kid.

It was good; it was the “Ninety” I believe. The Defender name was not attached until the Discovery came along. Awesome commercial and one that Richard Hammond replicated. Er, sort of.