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Reviews Coming...

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I want to see one winching itself up a dam. That advert/commercial alone sold me on the series3? Or was it the “new defender” when I was a kid.



"The Clywedog Dam near Llanidloes. 237 feet. 1987. It was staged. The Defender was hauled up by a massive winch at the top of the dam wall, although a stuntman was inside doing the steering. The Defender was lowered back down several times for different shots - with the stuntman steering it backwards every time. The opening sequence on the road was filmed in the Elan Valley while the river shot was filmed in the River Wye just upstream from the confluence with the Afon Elan near Rhaeadr Gwy. youtube.com/watch?v=Ad_c7nVi4qo&
 
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This was my thinking too -- first, I was really pleased to see that snorkel or not, the wading capability is pretty good on this rig. But then I also look at it in the context of the entire event. This is by far the most important event Ineos has done -- every major journalist in the world of automotive news will be taking this Gren through the paces and, based on what we've pieced together, on February 8th those opinions will be revealed to the world. That's VERY high stakes; imagine if even just one of those journalists ended up "dead in the water" due to water ingress into the engine (or any manner of other issue -- electronics for instance); this would be the equivalent of TFL Trucks' Defender saga which I have no doubt firmly hampered JLR's sales of the new Defender in North America. For a rig like the Grenadier, it would be very hard to come back from those first impressions. If you look at discussions on other forums, there are already people lamenting that the Gren is "unproven" and "too technological" by a company that has no automotive experience -- nevermind Magna's involvement, or that there is a minimum amount of technology required by regulation, or that it's using parts from proven collaborators; that detail is not something the general public (even the general 4x4 enthusiast public) are aware of, and so bad press on this first launch has the potential to be a disaster. In this day and age, a viral Tik-Tok/Instagram/Reddit disaster.

But, Ineos has taken Snorkelled and Non-Snorkelled trucks through a proper wade -- not the most difficult one in the word of course, but it's a far cry from the artificial stream/mudpit dug with a backhoe that the JLR experience provides folks when they launch a new rig. There's way more real-world variables in what Ineos is doing on this demo trip -- the car ahead could dislodge a large rock, leaving a pothole that causes the following Gren to drop a fender way below water level; a Journalist can get a bit steer-happy and go into deeper water; even day-to-day conditions on the lake can change the depth of that water crossing (i.e. higher winds). So, over the course of several weeks, Ineos is doing a regular real-world water crossing that comes close to threatening the max wading depth of the rig (and far exceeds the "approved" wading depth of all but a couple of other cars on the market).

The point of all this rambling is: If I were a decisionmaker in Ineos, I wouldn't be going near that kind of a water crossing unless I was supremely confident in the vehicle. The risk of damage from any kind of failure is too great, and this abundance of confidence I think says more about the rig than the photos in the water do.

And, I still want to know how these things drown, because at some point that's going to happen to someone. Can I pull the plugs, drain the oil, and continue on my way like I can with some of the classics? Or does drowning it mean I'm reaching for the InReach? We won't know for some time but the confidence I'm talking about above makes me hopeful about the answer.
They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion. I'd also prefer a setup closer to a street legal Mahindra Roxor in the shape of a defender. It seems pretty clear if you compare the two that the grenadier is more "technological" than it needs to be.
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion. I'd also prefer a setup closer to a street legal Mahindra Roxor in the shape of a defender. It seems pretty clear if you compare the two that the grenadier is more "technological" than it needs to be.

Sorry mgo, I don't know what you are referencing with "They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion"? It's late on a Friday so my brain might not be working on all three of my cells but I'm not sure what you mean.

As for the Gren being more technological -- More technological than it needs to be to operate? Absolutely.

More technological than it needs to be to be able to be sold all over the world? I'm less sure of this. I don't think they'd be able to sell it in Canada if it didn't have a backup camera and airbags, for example (required by law in 2018 and 2012 respectively, I think).
 

bigleonski

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They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion. I'd also prefer a setup closer to a street legal Mahindra Roxor in the shape of a defender. It seems pretty clear if you compare the two that the grenadier is more "technological" than it needs to be.
See for me if I wanted a bullet proof solely utilitarian go anywhere with no compromises rough as guts truck I’d buy a small massey ferguson 4wd tractor.

But I don’t.

I don’t get all the comments about the vehicle having creature comforts or some modern features and therefore not being’”built on purpose“. If you want that hand your deposit back and buy an old Landy or an 60 series LC.

I also believe that if that was what Ineos delivered it would go broke real quick.

I want a real 4wd that is reliable robust and easily fixable sure. But I have to live with it everyday so I aslo want it to be comfortable and modern and pleasant to drive whether I’m heading into the city every day, driving a 1000km up to Mackay on the highway, dragging a van across central Australia, spending my week away on Fraser Island or heading into the central Aussie deserts.

I reckon the Iggy can do all that, otherwise I’d be signing up for a 300 and building it up to handle that.
 
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globalgregors

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They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion. I'd also prefer a setup closer to a street legal Mahindra Roxor in the shape of a defender. It seems pretty clear if you compare the two that the grenadier is more "technological" than it needs to be.
I’m presuming you’re joking. On the remote chance that you aren’t… UAZ Hunter.
Which is of course the Russian analog of a Land Rover Series, still in manufacture and of course also available as a forward control - the Classic/‘Bukhanka’.
History on wheels, not for the autobahn.
 

PanoramaJJ

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After all, this is my vehicle, which I can pick up in a few weeks. (The picture above). ;)
Slowly I am beginning to ask myself, why I didn´t order the GRENADIER in "mushroom". Perhaps I thought this would be too much WHITE. But now I´ve seen several pictures and videos, and I believe that "mushroom" is a really nice color! (y)
 

bemax

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Slowly I am beginning to ask myself, why I didn´t order the GRENADIER in "mushroom". Perhaps I thought this would be too much WHITE. But now I´ve seen several pictures and videos, and I believe that "mushroom" is a really nice color! (y)
As your contract is already signed there is just one solution. Order a second one. For sure you will find someone who takes the one you like second best and pays the Price you pay.
 

Hannes01

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I ordered MM for my first configuration. In the meantime I have ordered 2 more things, each time thinking about a different color.
but I always stayed with MM. the first choice - from the gut - is always the best!
 
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Sorry mgo, I don't know what you are referencing with "They aren't wrong, it's just an opinion"? It's late on a Friday so my brain might not be working on all three of my cells but I'm not sure what you mean.

As for the Gren being more technological -- More technological than it needs to be to operate? Absolutely.

More technological than it needs to be to be able to be sold all over the world? I'm less sure of this. I don't think they'd be able to sell it in Canada if it didn't have a backup camera and airbags, for example (required by law in 2018 and 2012 respectively, I think).
yro
See for me if I wanted a bullet proof solely utilitarian go anywhere with no compromises rough as guts truck I’d buy a small massey ferguson 4wd tractor.

But I don’t.

I don’t get all the comments about the vehicle having creature comforts or some modern features and therefore not being’”built on purpose“. If you want that hand your deposit back and buy an old Landy or an 60 series LC.

I also believe that if that was what Ineos delivered it would go broke real quick.

I want a real 4wd that is reliable robust and easily fixable sure. But I have to live with it everyday so I aslo want it to be comfortable and modern and pleasant to drive whether I’m heading into the city every day, driving a 1000km up to Mackay on the highway, dragging a van across central Australia, spending my week away on Fraser Island or heading into the central Aussie deserts.

I reckon the Iggy can do all that, otherwise I’d be signing up for a 300 and building it up to handle that.
Well that would be fine if they don't price it too high. Still waiting on that here in NA. If it comes in at $70k usd, it's a wasted opportunity to have gone more utilitarian and shaved $20k off the price.

Foolish to cancel a reservation until we know a price point.
 

jamesfielding

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If I look at the image, the wading debt is way below the fender, there is only one "wave" that seems to go over the fender. The wading debt is 80 cm, that's about the diameter of the tires. I would think they took into account "waves" of water going a little bit higher.
Probably a stupid question so please be kind, but when they state the wading depth, is that the level at which you could safely stop in that water level? So “park” in 80cm of water?
 

Tazzieman

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Probably a stupid question so please be kind, but when they state the wading depth, is that the level at which you could safely stop in that water level? So “park” in 80cm of water?
I would have thought so. If you saw a drop off , or a croc approaching , you would need to stop, engage reverse and limp home safely.
 

DenisM

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Probably a stupid question so please be kind, but when they state the wading depth, is that the level at which you could safely stop in that water level? So “park” in 80cm of water?
I presumed it was the highest safe level for water, probably measured just below the bottom edge of the air intake on the (driver's) side mudguard of the Grenadier. whether you'd stop and park (and fish out the window....) I'm not sure. The 80cm level is well above the lower door seal. Some door seals are ok while moving, but once you stop, the pressure is such that the water finds its way in... but it does have drain holes!! (y):D
 
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MrMike

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Probably a stupid question so please be kind, but when they state the wading depth, is that the level at which you could safely stop in that water level? So “park” in 80cm of water?
I probably wouldn't "park" in 800mm of water, but fording or similar would be fine, I think the door seals would eventually leak
 

jamesfielding

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Not sure the order but here you go
 

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tartan shepherd

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In Summary TG dislikes:

Wipers not covering enough of screen
Offset pedals and intrusion into footwell
Limited rear visibility
Problems on two vehicles with diff solenoids engaging
They score it 7/10
 
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