Power steering noise

[Eric.S.]

Hello everyone I was finally able to pick up my grenadier yesterday Unfortunately, I noticed at home that my power steering makes a strange noise. I think it's not a normal noise, or? The filling level in the container was at maximum with the engine warm but switched off. The German instructions do not say exactly in which condition the oil should be checked. Does anyone have an idea? I tried to post a video but I always see the file is too big (7mb)
Thank you

 

[greenythegrenny]

For those of you with leaky reservoirs, this kit from Agile completely fixed my issues.

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad » Agile Offroad

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad. This seal prevents power steering seepage over time.

agileoffroad.com

For some reason the o-ring on the OEM reservoir cap is 50% the thickness that it should be to prevent spills. Dealer had been gaslighting me that it’s normal and these are always leaking, but mine never leaked from the pin hole. Dealers should just upgrade the o-ring.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Respectfully, why not compare the steering experience? Both are straight axle, triple locked, full time 4WD trucks.

Steering wise, 80 > IG > Wrangler.


Mine hasn't changed a lick (OK with me).

Because ball joints, swivel balls and kingpins are all mechanically different systems, with different pluses, minuses, capabilities and end user experiences.

 

[Blackgray]

For those of you with leaky reservoirs, this kit from Agile completely fixed my issues.

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad » Agile Offroad

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad. This seal prevents power steering seepage over time.

agileoffroad.com

For some reason the o-ring on the OEM reservoir cap is 50% the thickness that it should be to prevent spills. Dealer had been gaslighting me that it’s normal and these are always leaking, but mine never leaked from the pin hole. Dealers should just upgrade the o-ring.

Did your steering whine improve or stay the same after this install?

 

[C-Mack]

For those of you with leaky reservoirs, this kit from Agile completely fixed my issues.

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad » Agile Offroad

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad. This seal prevents power steering seepage over time.

agileoffroad.com

For some reason the o-ring on the OEM reservoir cap is 50% the thickness that it should be to prevent spills. Dealer had been gaslighting me that it’s normal and these are always leaking, but mine never leaked from the pin hole. Dealers should just upgrade the o-ring.

I installed the same o-ring kit from Agile and it stopped the reservoir leak completely. The OEM o-ring is not thick enough and holding both in your hand you can easily see the difference with the Agile o-ring. When tighten the cap you can feel the Agile o-ring cinch up which you can’t with the OEM one.

This isn’t going to correct or change anything to do with the power steering pump noise this is only going to fix the weeping around the top of the fluid reservoir which can easily be interpreted as a leaking vent hole in the cap. Don’t overfill the reservoir keep it either halfway between min/max or just under the max level to give some headspace in the reservoir.

 

[255/85]

Respectfully, why not compare the steering experience? Both are straight axle, triple locked, full time 4WD trucks.

Steering wise, 80 > IG > Wrangler.

I'm pretty familiar with Toyota solid axles. Toyota favors a closed-knuckle design. The small knuckle bearings were unchanged for 30+ years from '58-90. There's only a slight change for the 80 series. Solid axles ended with the introduction of the 100 series but other markets got the 105. Maybe someone here can supply some info on them. They run Cv axleshafts known as Birfields which, iirc, is a combination of Birmingham and Sheffield combined into an early maker's name.

Wranglers use ball joints at the open knuckle (swivel) end in all recent iterations - at least for the past 30+ years. Ball joints are great for light, playful steering but their durability has always been questionable. This is partially due to the need to press them in (and out) which accelerates wear in the seat as there is no bushing or spacer that takes the attrition. Hate the dang things but I have them on three vehicles. Wranglers run single u-joint alxeshafts though the aftermarket has made CV upgrades available.

I'm not sure what the Grenadiers have (are you?) but I think they might be true kingpins with a bearing which is similar to the Toyota design but are "open" though heavily shrouded. Heck, they might even run a bronze bushing instead of bearings as was done on many solid-axled vehicles in the past but I would doubt it. Maybe someone with access to the manual will chime in. Carraro runs dual universal joints in the axleshafts. That's a first for me and I was a bit taken aback at one of the early test drives when we saw that and had the (then) aftersales manager call in to HQ to confirm that we'd be seeing dual u-joints on the actual production models.

On top of the above they all use different steering set-ups. All these things affect steering to a degree. The point is that a direct comparison can't honestly be made.

 

[Logsplitter]

I'm pretty familiar with Toyota solid axles. Toyota favors a closed-knuckle design. The small knuckle bearings were unchanged for 30+ years from '58-90. There's only a slight change for the 80 series. Solid axles ended with the introduction of the 100 series but other markets got the 105. Maybe someone here can supply some info on them. They run Cv axleshafts known as Birfields which, iirc, is a combination of Birmingham and Sheffield combined into an early maker's name.

Wranglers use ball joints at the open knuckle (swivel) end in all recent iterations - at least for the past 30+ years. Ball joints are great for light, playful steering but their durability has always been questionable. This is partially due to the need to press them in (and out) which accelerates wear in the seat as there is no bushing or spacer that takes the attrition. Hate the dang things but I have them on three vehicles. Wranglers run single u-joint alxeshafts though the aftermarket has made CV upgrades available.

I'm not sure what the Grenadiers have (are you?) but I think they might be true kingpins with a bearing which is similar to the Toyota design but are "open" though heavily shrouded. Heck, they might even run a bronze bushing instead of bearings as was done on many solid-axled vehicles in the past but I would doubt it. Maybe someone with access to the manual will chime in. Carraro runs dual universal joints in the axleshafts. That's a first for me and I was a bit taken aback at one of the early test drives when we saw that and had the (then) aftersales manager call in to HQ to confirm that we'd be seeing dual u-joints on the actual production models.

On top of the above they all use different steering set-ups. All these things affect steering to a degree. The point is that a direct comparison can't honestly be made.

Is this what you need ?

 

[Tom109]

Steering wise, 80 > IG > Wrangler.

Mine hasn't changed a lick (OK with me).

Lack of consistency is also a concern.

I’ve never driven an 80, and don’t have any of steering issues mentioned here so I do love the way my Gren drives. I think I need to meet up with @Dokatd to see if maybe I’m the crazy one.

 

[255/85]

Is this what you need ?

Yes! I notice there are no shims to set preload and knuckle height. That's an improvement over the Toyota design in my book.

 

[abbeyroad]

The point is that a direct comparison can't honestly be made.

Sure it can. I just did being the owner of a '97 factory locked LC and a '24 IG. In fact, the bones of both have much more in common than anything else in IG's competitive class (Defender, Land Cruiser, GX550, Wrangler, etc).

At the end of the day, as stated, both are live axle, full time 4WD, triple locked trucks that are built for heavy duty service. My point is, my 80 steers far better or far closer to mimmicking an IFS truck than the much newer IG which is likely a surprise to many.

80s use birfields WITH full float rears on the 95-97s IIRC.

P.S. The 105 is a 100 body on 80 chassis/powertrain

 

[abbeyroad]

I’ve never driven an 80, and don’t have any of steering issues mentioned here so I do love the way my Gren drives. I think I need to meet up with @Dokatd to see if maybe I’m the crazy one.

I don't have steering issues either; just drives like a normal, bone stock IG.

We're both crazy for the IG I presume. lol But I just don't sport rose tinted glasses.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Sure it can. I just did being the owner of a '97 factory locked LC and a '24 IG. In fact, the bones of both have much more in common than anything else in IG's competitive class (Defender, Land Cruiser, GX550, Wrangler, etc).

You don't understand what you don't understand.

 

[cdsvt]

Sure it can. I just did being the owner of a '97 factory locked LC and a '24 IG. In fact, the bones of both have much more in common than anything else in IG's competitive class (Defender, Land Cruiser, GX550, Wrangler, etc).

At the end of the day, as stated, both are live axle, full time 4WD, triple locked trucks that are built for heavy duty service. My point is, my 80 steers far better or far closer to mimmicking an IFS truck than the much newer IG which is likely a surprise to many.

80s use birfields WITH full float rears on the 95-97s IIRC.

P.S. The 105 is a 100 body on 80 chassis/powertrain

IIRC, all '93-97 with rear disk brakes got the full float rear. I'd love to try a 105, I could never get into the front IFS with torsion bars on the one 100 series I've owned.

 

[DaneJa]

I installed the same o-ring kit from Agile and it stopped the reservoir leak completely. The OEM o-ring is not thick enough and holding both in your hand you can easily see the difference with the Agile o-ring. When tighten the cap you can feel the Agile o-ring cinch up which you can’t with the OEM one.

This isn’t going to correct or change anything to do with the power steering pump noise this is only going to fix the weeping around the top of the fluid reservoir which can easily be interpreted as a leaking vent hole in the cap. Don’t overfill the reservoir keep it either halfway between min/max or just under the max level to give some headspace in the reservoir.

Agile on left.

 

[abbeyroad]

IIRC, all '93-97 with rear disk brakes got the full float rear. I'd love to try a 105, I could never get into the front IFS with torsion bars on the one 100 series I've owned.

I stand corrected, thank you. One thing I did note when I was adjusting the steering link is how much beefier it is compared to my 80 even if the former outweighs the latter by 1K lbs. I know where my money went.

 

[Dokatd]

I’ve never driven an 80, and don’t have any of steering issues mentioned here so I do love the way my Gren drives. I think I need to meet up with @Dokatd to see if maybe I’m the crazy one.

You are very welcome too. Just PM me. Far north Dallas. I've been helping another owner come to terms with his as well. Mostly because he keeps changing things

 

[NQ94]

Current LC 70 series uses the same front axle and suspension design as live axle 105 and 80 series the parts are interchangeable right down to the spindles and wheel bearings. Any Toyota live axles use shims in king pins for two reasons, 1 to set preloaded and 2 to centre the wheel bearing spindle with the centre line of the axle to reduce excessive misalignment for the axle on the support bearing an to reduce axle seal failure. Toyota has special service tool to correctly set the swivel housing centre, most people are unaware of the tool or don't use it. The Ineos axle is supported by a bush but the end of the axle and the centring is done by securing the axle nut in the wheel hub. The common feature Ineos king pins will have with LC and Patrol is that the will brinell the bearing cup and lose preload over time and give some steering issues.

 

[Dokatd]

This is the Grenadier swivel pin setup. My understanding is there are shims under the bearing race.

Regardless this is a bizarre setup but still functionally the same as a rover or Toyota.

Not my photo fyi. But this was taken Stateside and sent directly to me.

 

[Rowsham]

For those of you with leaky reservoirs, this kit from Agile completely fixed my issues.

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad » Agile Offroad

Power Steering Reservoir Cap Seals for INEOS Grenadier by Agile Offroad. This seal prevents power steering seepage over time.

agileoffroad.com

For some reason the o-ring on the OEM reservoir cap is 50% the thickness that it should be to prevent spills. Dealer had been gaslighting me that it’s normal and these are always leaking, but mine never leaked from the pin hole. Dealers should just upgrade the o-ring.

That’s crazy, that’s one of the things I brought in mine for and they told me it was normal very much appreciated!

 

[255/85]

Current LC 70 series uses the same front axle and suspension design as live axle 105 and 80 series the parts are interchangeable right down to the spindles and wheel bearings. Any Toyota live axles use shims in king pins for two reasons, 1 to set preloaded and 2 to centre the wheel bearing spindle with the centre line of the axle to reduce excessive misalignment for the axle on the support bearing an to reduce axle seal failure. Toyota has special service tool to correctly set the swivel housing centre, most people are unaware of the tool or don't use it. The Ineos axle is supported by a bush but the end of the axle and the centring is done by securing the axle nut in the wheel hub.

I like Toyota stuff but let's be honest here. If Toyota could build an axle housing to consistent dimensions then that tool wouldn't be necessary. The welded construction introduces far to many irregularities. Plus they're fairy weak. I've seen quite a few bent Toyota front axles housings for how little I'm into offroad driving. I keep two spares (plus one rear) in case I get into an accident.

More people seem to know about the special tool now because there's an inexpensive aftermarket version available. TBH it seems many hardcore types don't even bother with knuckle centering here in the States. If replacing a knuckle or housings they'll often just set preload with even stacks of shims on the top and bottom and run a Marlin Crawler inner seal that allows for a much larger offset. It's probably fine for low speed work but wouldn't be the best for a vehicle driven at speed over long distances.

Marlin Eco Seal

The common feature Ineos king pins will have with LC and Patrol is that the will brinell the bearing cup and lose preload over time and give some steering issues.

The funny part is that as the cup gets reshaped by the roller bearings hammering it, the vehicle will actually self center better. Well, for a little while.

I'm glad the Carraro axles don't seem to require a centering process.

 

[Dokatd]

I like Toyota stuff but let's be honest here. If Toyota could build an axle housing to consistent dimensions then that tool wouldn't be necessary. The welded construction introduces far to many irregularities. Plus they're fairy weak. I've seen quite a few bent Toyota front axles housings for how little I'm into offroad driving. I keep two spares (plus one rear) in case I get into an accident.

More people seem to know about the special tool now because there's an inexpensive aftermarket version available. TBH it seems many hardcore types don't even bother with knuckle centering here in the States. If replacing a knuckle or housings they'll often just set preload with even stacks of shims on the top and bottom and run a Marlin Crawler inner seal that allows for a much larger offset. It's probably fine for low speed work but wouldn't be the best for a vehicle driven at speed over long distances.

Marlin Eco Seal



The funny part is that as the cup gets reshaped by the roller bearings hammering it, the vehicle will actually self center better. Well, for a little while.

I'm glad the Carraro axles don't seem to require a centering process.

Centering isn't as critical on Yota and rover because the CV joint is centric on the wheel spindle via a bearing or bushing depending on specific build. The CV joint is in a sealed knuckle or swivel ball. The Grenadier has an open design with a Double Cardan. This requires the shaft be fixed or centered on both sides of the joint. I have already seen gauled shafts on Grenadiers.

Expect future version of the Grenadier to come with a redesigned axle with CV's someday. To be fair I like the Cararro axle, I just don't think it's going to win over the masses and is expensive as compared to more traditional road going vehicles like Rovers and Yotas.