Americas North & South America Service Network

[Jeffrey]

I prefer that 'service centers' are NOT new car dealers but rather factory certified independent mechanics. There are plenty in my town that are excellent repair shops for MBZ, BMW, Land Rover, etc. Better service and rates.

 

[Chadd7]

I prefer that 'service centers' are NOT new car dealers but rather factory certified independent mechanics. There are plenty in my town that are excellent repair shops for MBZ, BMW, Land Rover, etc. Better service and rates.

Maintenance for sure but not for warranty work.

 

[Jeffrey]

Maintenance for sure but not for warranty work.

Warranty work is what I am mostly referring to. Ineos needs to find independent service centers and provide manuals and access to the parts department. Maintenance? I'll do that myself.

 

[anand]

Warranty work is what I am mostly referring to. Ineos needs to find independent service centers and provide manuals and access to the parts department. Maintenance? I'll do that myself.

The problem with warranty work from indy shops is that those indy technicians would have to be trained by Ineos, have a parts department with parts in stock, and they would need staff to handle both parts and warranty ordering/paperwork. Neither side really wants to invest that much into the process unfortunately.

From ~15 years of working at an independent Euro shop, dealing with warranty claims (after-sale warranties) was definitely on the short list of worst parts of the job; to the point where we considered several times to bill the customer our normal hourly shop rate for time spent on the phone/email/fax to get warranty approval for things. I'll say this with a grain of salt, because where I worked started as 90% performance work, 10% service (after the first 5-6 years it became probably 60/40), getting any of our techs (all factory trained and ex-dealer techs) to do anything along the lines of traditional dealer warranty work (interior trim, electronics troubleshooting, leaks, chasing NVH, etc) was worse than pulling teeth. They'd do service work happily all day long, and performance work, but throw a "customer states..." on the repair order and they'd rather take the day off and not get paid for it. Again, maybe my experience is in the minority for indy repair shops

 

[Chadd7]

Warranty work is what I am mostly referring to. Ineos needs to find independent service centers and provide manuals and access to the parts department. Maintenance? I'll do that myself.

Indy shop doing warranty work? I guess I've never witnessed that in my life.

 

[Zimm]

If you want the Grenadier - buy the Grenadier.

My experience with dealerships thus far has been overwhelmingly positive. RDS offered to send a flat bed to bring my vehicle from Fairfax, VA to Philly, or send someone to my house with a loaner. The dealerships are picking up the slack for Ineos NA. I think you can feel secure that an investment in the relationship with your dealer is worthwhile. I also signed up for AAA platinum, and have some roadside assistance through my insurance. These should not be required, but the cost is nominal and keeps me secure that if something happens, I can at least get it within spitting distance of a dealer.

I was "sorta" told the same thing by RDS last month, aaaand, I didn't feel like that was an unequivocal commitment. I was told they would "work with me". Working with me, usually consists of me getting a bill in my experience.

I'm supposed to pick up on Tuesday and the difficulty I've had this month with customer and family commitments, and now my impending tooth surgery, has only heightened my anxiety about them being 4.5 hrs and 290 miles away.

I specifically asked if I could go to a BMW dealer or if they had plans to just work with them, and that answer was an unequivocal no. Think about it. There are BMW dealers everywhere, and if they signed a contract with BMW dealers for service, all of the Ineos dealers would be competing with them for the service. I was told there will be designated area service centers.

SO I asked how many trucks they are sending to my county, as we pay a higher tax rate than the rest of the state (nice, eh?) so that should be easy to see, and it was something to the tune of, me and two others so far... the positive spin he put on it, was I'll be rather exclusive for now, but my head was thinking, "Who the hell is gonna make a deal with a company without any potential work?"

Now consider, EVERY vehicle that has been at this house and my business in the past 20 years has needed warranty and recall work, including my vaunted 100 series indestructible reliability machine.

Due to my inescapable delays, they were a little insistent I get the truck before the end of the month. I get that they need it off their lot for the bank, but on the other side, no one actually took the time to contact me about when it was in production and my root canal is now a priority. Hell, I had been reading the INEOS website that said it wasn't even in production, and I was about to pull the trigger on a Defender. Why have a website to sign into for your updates, if it's not going to be updated??? Pressuring me to get it next week isn't moving my needle, what it does is piss me off and it's making me consider what a pain in the ass this may be WHEN the recalls start coming, because they will be coming, I guarantee it. Beta ownership may be a 95g error.

 

[Chadd7]

At that distance, I would only consider a grenadier if I was at least semi-retired and had family or friends I could visit along the way. Otherwise, I would cancel my order.

 

[[ Adam ]]

At that distance, I would only consider a grenadier if I was at least semi-retired and had family or friends I could visit along the way. Otherwise, I would cancel my order.

Fortunately the Acela from Washington DC to Philly is ~$130 & an hour and a half. It simplifies the conversation about needing to drop the car off, but is less than ideal.

I've heard rumor that the DC Metro area is high on the target list for a dealership by '25, due to the high concentration of buyers in the area.

 

[roadfever]

We need a proper service network and accessible workshop manuals/parts catalog. Promised since day 1. We also need company participation and for INEOS Automotive to lean in. This isn't 2010. It's very, very easy to interact with your customers. The silence is becoming a bit loud.

 

[carlg007]

We need a proper service network and accessible workshop manuals/parts catalog. Promised since day 1. We also need company participation and for INEOS Automotive to lean in. This isn't 2010. It's very, very easy to interact with your customers. The silence is becoming a bit loud.

I and many other would agree. Unfortunately the lack of these unfulfilled promises does not seem to prevent the loss of sales. Unless this effects the bottom line why would the company bother! My main interest in the Grenadier was I thought this company was going to be different than the other big car companies, seems I may have been wrong, but I was making that assumption after reading all of the press releases about online workshop manuals and the ability to order parts directly from the company. I understand the challenges of new start up and most people would and do know some things do take time, but the lack of communication is very hard to deal with. If I knew for a fact that independant service sites would be available as originally promised my decision to complete my delivery next month would be much easier.

 

[Chadd7]

I and many other would agree. Unfortunately the lack of these unfulfilled promises does not seem to prevent the loss of sales. Unless this effects the bottom line why would the company bother! My main interest in the Grenadier was I thought this company was going to be different than the other big car companies, seems I may have been wrong, but I was making that assumption after reading all of the press releases about online workshop manuals and the ability to order parts directly from the company. I understand the challenges of new start up and most people would and do know some things do take time, but the lack of communication is very hard to deal with. If I knew for a fact that independant service sites would be available as originally promised my decision to complete my delivery next month would be much easier.

Agreed. One thing I keep in mind though is that parent Ineos is a high yield issuer. Not as much financial flexibility as the big auto manufacturers.

 

[Zimm]

I think we need to keep something in perspective, but the folowing is still just pure conjecture.

Sir Rads ineos has pre tax profits of around 6b a year. He can buy and sell the real Donald Trump 6x a year. He can pay a 380m judgement walking out the courtroom door. He has real money. BUT, making autos is a high investment low profit margin business that cost billions just to break even.

He carefully cultivated an image as business genius and high flying playboy, and with all those business contacts and cult of personality, he was able to get suppliers signed on to his new toy. He even lucked out and acquired a great plant on the cheap. The same situation with a Bill Gates type doesn't fly, because Bill types are boring.

But, at some point the rubber hits the road. Hype doesn't pay bills or balance budgets. Billions have been going out the door and the ROI prospects were never that great by the nature of the business itself. How many truly independent car companies have been created in the past 50 years? EVERYTHING coming out of Asia, from China, to India, to the successful Korean companies, spent DECADES being subsidized by their governments.

While we all know the US rollout can't fail and Ineos succeed, it's possible it's tighter right now than they let on.

Maybe If no one is answering the phone at Ineos right now, it's because there isn't anyone to pick up. It's a skeleton staff with a skeleton PR contract, and Austraila is short on parts because the parts don't exist, and we're short on service centers because they havent really tried to cross that bridge yet. Maybe the money isn't there?

 

[[ Adam ]]

I also get the impression that Ineos USA may be a bit micro managed by the mother ship. It feels like dealerships are incredibly dependent on authorization from the UK to do anything at all. This is having a significant impact on Cust Sat.


I wouldn't be surprised if this extended to the management of the US org in general.

 

[Zimm]

I also get the impression that Ineos USA may be a bit micro managed by the mother ship. It feels like dealerships are incredibly dependent on authorization from the UK to do anything at all. This is having a significant impact on Cust Sat.


I wouldn't be surprised if this extended to the management of the US org in general.

It's typical for auto manufacturers to have a regional rep that interfaces with he dealers, and, If you're having dealer issues and you're lucky you can complain to. Does that position exist in the US? I would think it had to.

 

[[ Adam ]]

It's typical for auto manufacturers to have a regional rep that interfaces with he dealers, and, If you're having dealer issues and you're lucky you can complain to. Does that position exist in the US? I would think it had to.

There appears to be east and west regional reps, but I have not interfaced with them.

 

[Norb-TX]

What we need is another video from Greg!

 

[anand]

It's typical for auto manufacturers to have a regional rep that interfaces with he dealers, and, If you're having dealer issues and you're lucky you can complain to. Does that position exist in the US? I would think it had to.

It does; both for dealer interactions on the sales side and the technical side

 

[Zimm]

It does; both for dealer interactions on the sales side and the technical side

THAT person, would know what is going on with the independent service providers, if only because that person would need to know if he's in charge of those relations (or going to be), or if there will be a separate person assigned to those shops.

 

[Jeffrey]

THAT person, would know what is going on with the independent service providers, if only because that person would need to know if he's in charge of those relations (or going to be), or if there will be a separate person assigned to those shops.

You don't seem particularly happy here. Perhaps you should not own one of these cars, and buy a Ford or Toyota instead.

 

[255/85]

I'm supposed to pick up on Tuesday and the difficulty I've had this month with customer and family commitments, and now my impending tooth surgery, has only heightened my anxiety about them being 4.5 hrs and 290 miles away.

I feel for your predicament and I think you've hit the nail on the head. Put on a smile and attempt to convince the dealership to sit tight until you've had the surgery. A hot tooth is no aid to straight thinking. You'll be astounded how quickly your other worries will diminish and a way forward will become clear once you're out of pain.