Locking/Unlocking the Centre Diff while moving

[landmannnn]

They are garbage on icy roads. Yes they are 3PMS rated - but I think if you do a lot of snow and ice, real snow tires are the way to go (I’m not even talking about studded tires). I switch over in November once the temperature drops. But for infrequent snow days - probably fine for an AT tire. I hear the K03’s are a little better.

True, 3PMSF rating is just that the tyres have 10% more traction than this reference tyre.

 

[Blackwolf]

I've always been puzzled and had my own theories about the way that about 50% of Defender owners who run KO2 or KO3 tyres swear by them and 50% swear at them, it makes no sense that opinions of the same tyre can vary so much and it has made me wonder if different factories use different compounds,

I also thought that the video below was interesting, looking in detail at the KO3. Spoiler, not all KO3s are the same.

I run KM3s on my Defender and most of the time they are brilliant, but in snow they are extremely not good. I haven't yet had the chance to try the KO2s (I think they are 2 not 3) on my Grenadier in snow.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTKgiqgDNwQ

 

[landmannnn]

I've always been puzzled and had my own theories about the way that about 50% of Defender owners who run KO2 or KO3 tyres swear by them and 50% swear at them, it makes no sense that opinions of the same tyre can vary so much and it has made me wonder if different factories use different compounds,

I also thought that the video below was interesting, looking in detail at the KO3. Spoiler, not all KO3s are the same.

I run KM3s on my Defender and most of the time they are brilliant, but in snow they are extremely not good. I haven't yet had the chance to try the KO2s (I think they are 2 not 3) on my Grenadier in snow.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTKgiqgDNwQ

Interesting video.

Having run KOs and KO2s on and off for the last couple of decades, compared to a general SUV road biased tyre such as the Conti Cross Contact the KO2s are not a great road tyre. Noisy, harsh, fuel consumption hit, poor performance in the wet etc.

For the average Defender (or other 4x4) driver whose off road experience is parking on the grass at the local garden centre they are not a great choice.
Also not a great choice for the select few who regularly drive through thick mud.

For the other 50% or so who drive a bit of everything, they generally accept that an AT is a jack of all trades, but master of none. They wll probably like the KO2/3.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I've always been puzzled and had my own theories about the way that about 50% of Defender owners who run KO2 or KO3 tyres swear by them and 50% swear at them, it makes no sense that opinions of the same tyre can vary so much and it has made me wonder if different factories use different compounds,

I also thought that the video below was interesting, looking in detail at the KO3. Spoiler, not all KO3s are the same.

I run KM3s on my Defender and most of the time they are brilliant, but in snow they are extremely not good. I haven't yet had the chance to try the KO2s (I think they are 2 not 3) on my Grenadier in snow.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTKgiqgDNwQ

I like his stuff - out of Idaho, I think. I think the variable feedback is because everyone is driving in different conditions. For real packed snow and ice performance, the perspective that counts is from people who have to live with that - where winter sets in with a death grip and the roads aren’t clear for significant stretches of time. Someone just driving around town in Denver is going to have a very different take from someone in rural North Dakota. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that I get a lot of fishtailing and sliding on the K02’s, and then when I switch, it’s planted and powers through. Stops and starts are vastly improved as well.

 

[CRH]

I like his stuff - out of Idaho, I think. I think the variable feedback is because everyone is driving in different conditions. For real packed snow and ice performance, the perspective that counts is from people who have to live with that - where winter sets in with a death grip and the roads aren’t clear for significant stretches of time. Someone just driving around town in Denver is going to have a very different take from someone in rural North Dakota. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that I get a lot of fishtailing and sliding on the K02’s, and then when I switch, it’s planted and powers through. Stops and starts are vastly improved as well.

I have read the comments from the start and your last statement sort of covers what I am about to state.
Uk driver asking what the tyres are like in snow really needs an answer from someone in the UK. We have 2-3 inches of snow, very occasionally more, it lasts generally for the rush hour to work or home then it's gone. The roads are slippy from compacted snow for a short time, or if you are early on the roads in the morning then it’s just snow. Yes, we can get it a bit worse in Wales and higher parts of England, Scotland can be a lot worse and for longer in certain parts. I don't think we are allowed studded tyres in the Uk. Most don't even bother with anything other than summer tyres on their cars. All season tyres are becoming more used and then very few have winter tyres and then some of those use all year round.

So for the UK, we are just after simple suggestions for using what we have as we aren't about to hand over £800 for tyres to use 2 days/ year.
Currently only have the ko2s on mine but I do believe in winter tyres or all season at least for all previous vehicles

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I have read the comments from the start and your last statement sort of covers what I am about to state.
Uk driver asking what the tyres are like in snow really needs an answer from someone in the UK. We have 2-3 inches of snow, very occasionally more, it lasts generally for the rush hour to work or home then it's gone. The roads are slippy from compacted snow for a short time, or if you are early on the roads in the morning then it’s just snow. Yes, we can get it a bit worse in Wales and higher parts of England, Scotland can be a lot worse and for longer in certain parts. I don't think we are allowed studded tyres in the Uk. Most don't even bother with anything other than summer tyres on their cars. All season tyres are becoming more used and then very few have winter tyres and then some of those use all year round.

So for the UK, we are just after simple suggestions for using what we have as we aren't about to hand over £800 for tyres to use 2 days/ year.
Currently only have the ko2s on mine but I do believe in winter tyres or all season at least for all previous vehicles

I think that’s exactly right - if you’ve got a few days here and there, I’m sure K02’s are completely adequate. If you’ve got long stretches of extreme cold and ice, no. So it’s kind of a pointless argument when people try to objectively assess whether they’re adequate - it depends.

 

[AztecGrenadier]

I see several online mentions of the K02/03 being hard to balance. Is this just click bait or is it a real issue.

I have a set of factory 17" rims with the K02s.
They work well for off road driving. Looking at options when these wear out.

I have a set of factory 18" rims with Dueler A/T 001 tires. These work well for paved and icy roads.

Thanks

 

[AaronS]

I see several online mentions of the K02/03 being hard to balance. Is this just click bait or is it a real issue.

I have run BFG Mud-Terrain (both KO2 series and now KO3 series) for the better part of 25 years and never had issues with balancing.

The only BFG All-Terrain I've had was the OEM tires that came on the truck... they did not have an excessive number of balancing weights.

 

[landmannnn]

Most MTs and many ATs can be hard to balance on a standard balancer (one that just spins the wheel).

Most 4x4 specialists will have a road force balancer (one with a roller) which improves the process.

I think that is the source of the complaints on the various forums.

 

[skinny_tom]

I have run BFG Mud-Terrain (both KO2 series and now KO3 series) for the better part of 25 years and never had issues with balancing.

The only BFG All-Terrain I've had was the OEM tires that came on the truck... they did not have an excessive number of balancing weights.

I have a set of KO2's on my old Jeep CJ7. It's light and powerless (by today's standards) and they do great in everything I throw at it. To be honest, I don't challenge the vehicle much even when I'm off road as my appetite for destruction has mostly been satiated at this point in my life. (That and I'm kind of tired of fixing cars right now.) I'll get the mfg date from them if I get a chance, but they're probably 8 years old. They were a bear to balance for the shop. And they're still not balanced, I just live with it- as they're "close enough." After watching the video above, I'm going to look at the tread pattern as see which version of the KO3 came on the Grenadier.

Edit: K02 tires on the Jeep are Week 5 of 2017. A quick search doesn't help me find which factory made them though. And then I wonder if buying them in metric sizes vs. "american" sizes would effect the construction and balance.

-sorry for hijacking the thread. I'll leave it alone now.

 

[scoloco]

Driving on snow covered roads? Since I live where it’s winter 11 months out of the year (so my wife says) and drive on snow and ice covered roads a lot - the unlocked 4WD is almost always sufficient for me - but I have dedicated wheels and snow tires for winter. I just rarely need to lock if I’m not offroad or being a doofus in snowbanks. It’s just so capable on winter roads, especially with the right tires.

I second CrazyOldMan. On blacktop, locking the center diff should not be necessary. The only time I locked the center diff in my LT230 Landrover was when dealing with an obstacle (on dirt roads). I never locked it on blacktop, sometimes did on challenging sections on dirt roads. I had a Jeep before that with part-time t-case and in that one I pulled the 4wd lever more frequently than the full-time 4wd unit once on dirt.
A steep dirt driveway (in wet/snow) is a different story though.
As for tires, I had a Focus FWD with summer tires - totally, completely and utterly useless once it got cold. But with winter tires, it was amazing.

 

[MileHigh]

I see several online mentions of the K02/03 being hard to balance. Is this just click bait or is it a real issue.

I have a set of factory 17" rims with the K02s.
They work well for off road driving. Looking at options when these wear out.

I have a set of factory 18" rims with Dueler A/T 001 tires. These work well for paved and icy roads.

Thanks

My Ko3s seemed to have a lot of lead weights on my steel rims. I just dabbed them with black paint.

On the 4hi, for high-speed roads I'm not sure what it really gets you? Especially since it shuts off some of the ESC functions? Will affect instability control?

To me, 4hi would work well if the brake related stability/traction system is working so hard that it heats up the brakes- I think there are videos of other SUVs having issues when driven hard and long. 4hi would make the mechanicals do the traction work- but perhaps not as elegantly?

I used 4Hi on some dirt roads, more for fun. The first few times it took awhile for it to confirm the center was unlocked after pressing the button. It works instantly now, I think it was a break in issue.

Mine does make a grinding sound the last time I went in and out of 4hi. I think movement, or some play would help.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I second CrazyOldMan. On blacktop, locking the center diff should not be necessary. The only time I locked the center diff in my LT230 Landrover was when dealing with an obstacle (on dirt roads). I never locked it on blacktop, sometimes did on challenging sections on dirt roads. I had a Jeep before that with part-time t-case and in that one I pulled the 4wd lever more frequently than the full-time 4wd unit once on dirt.
A steep dirt driveway (in wet/snow) is a different story though.
As for tires, I had a Focus FWD with summer tires - totally, completely and utterly useless once it got cold. But with winter tires, it was amazing.

I need to print and frame this - first time in 2 years anyone has agreed with me. I need to process this - it’s very emotional for me.

 

[Clark Kent]

I need to print and frame this - first time in 2 years anyone has agreed with me. I need to process this - it’s very emotional for me.

This is your moment. Enjoy.