Letter to Lynne Calder

[MattA]

Having been on Land Rover forums and other 4wding forums what I see here is very normal and should be promoted
Some fan boys and some hate and ridicule of the product, some who have had a bad experience hate the product, some make all kinds of excuses and ignore the failures because they have a blind love
To get a full understanding and glimpse of the products reality it’s the same as watching the news, watch the right and left biased news, yes the are all biased one way or the other then find the facts half way.
A car forum is totally useless and not worth a pinch of salt if either side of the public’s opinion or perception is muted
It’s not personal attacks unless it is made that way which is pathetic and from those who can’t put up valid arguments because if they unpack their own opinions they would realise they are on the wrong side of the fence

 

[MattA]

On another note , wasn’t the 16th the date for some sort of final word from Ineos?
Can’t wait for that to come and go

 

[Jiman01]

From what I have gathered on this forum more than others it seems is sort of 3 “camps” the “Ineos is amazing and all the issues are NBD” or the “don’t comment just read and mostly passive” and the “ What a shit show why is Ineos so screwed up” and the clas is between groups 1 and 3. Anyone who has had any serious issue with the truck is shamed and told to stop complaining by the “I love my Grennie” group. Like anyone who has an issue should just be happy that Ineos made the truck and should accept all the problems as “normal” I myself have clashed with several people here who basically told me to either accept sub par no excuse build problems or “sell it and move on” that I should be grateful to the Ineos gods for building a truck that spent more time with the dealership then it did in my possession in a year of ownership. It seems group 1 and group 3 have very different views of how the forum should work as well. Group 1 wants only positive posts with no complaints, while group 3 wants solutions and to make it public that there are actual serious flaws with the truck. And to be honest this forum has had some pretty serious clashes that don’t make sense to me. I’ve never understood how people can choose to be so unkind to people having serious problems with a vehicle. Meanwhile others seem content to accept serious short comings as quaint Quirks that are NBD. I truly have no idea, it’s a strange forum.

I agree, but I don't think it’s strange at all. Look at the world. The redeeming factor IMO is that those in group 1 and 3 are the minority but they are the loudest and shouty.. I think the majority are in the middle….maybe left or right of middle but definitely more in the middle than groups 1 and 3.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

ha I think I just like taking the contrarian pov. As critical as I am of Ineos in this forum, I am a strong advocate for Ineos outside of this forum…

 

[IslandFalconer]

ha I think I just like taking the contrarian pov. As critical as I am of Ineos in this forum, I am a strong advocate for Ineos outside of this forum…

Im finding it more and more difficult when people approach me to recommend one. The last few people I’ve spoken with I just advised to buy a restomod 110. All the modern luxury in a repairable platform built the way you expect. No $3000 windscreen, no ADAS stupidity, No Bullshit Bong with 1/4 tank of gas. No nonsense Camera warnings, no service reset that requires the dealership. It’s harder and harder to find “selling” points. Until Ineos ponies up and fixes the nonsense I’m not recommending this truck to anyone.

 

[MattA]

Im finding it more and more difficult when people approach me to recommend one. The last few people I’ve spoken with I just advised to buy a restomod 110. All the modern luxury in a repairable platform built the way you expect. No $3000 windscreen, no ADAS stupidity, No Bullshit Bong with 1/4 tank of gas. No nonsense Camera warnings, no service reset that requires the dealership. It’s harder and harder to find “selling” points. Until Ineos ponies up and fixes the nonsense I’m not recommending this truck to anyone.

Interesting take on recommendations or not to
If I am ever asked about a specific vehicle I state my experience and advise that ALL cars have some sort of issue and do your own research, a make specific forum or crapbook page is always a good start so individuals can make their own educated decision based on information and thier requirements and risk tolerance

 

[IslandFalconer]

Interesting take on recommendations or not to
If I am ever asked about a specific vehicle I state my experience and advise that ALL cars have some sort of issue and do your own research, a make specific forum or crapbook page is always a good start so individuals can make their own educated decision based on information and thier requirements and risk tolerance

If there was any customer service/support or competent dealerships in eastern Canada I’d probably say look into it. But as there is neither I don’t see any point in steering someone towards the problems that are Ineos at this time.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

If there was any customer service/support or competent dealerships in eastern Canada I’d probably say look into it. But as there is neither I don’t see any point in steering someone towards the problems that are Ineos at this time.

Unless living near one of the two Canada service centers, Ineos is fking doa in the Canadian market. This vehicle is not good enough to put up with the after sales headache

 

[CRH]

The problems we have is the European vs Americas mentality.
In the UK (&possibly Europe as we were part of the EU at the time), it was compulsory to take your vehicle to the main dealer for all work to keep your warranty
This was changed some years back so that to keep a warranty we now can take our vehicles to qualified & VAT registered independent mechanics. So any idea of DIY servicing on a new vehicle will not happen. Whereas it seems over on the other side of the water you are able to do your own DIY service, which to us blows our minds, and keep your warranty.
So we are pretty used to being tied to main dealer network and expect to have to go back to them for all warranty work even if using an independent, which i think is pretty unusual for most. So over here all we worry about is a local dealer and parts supply. Windscreen are going to be covered by insurance bar a £100-150 excess.
A lot of aggression is created as the Internet is full of trolls and it's suspected by fans that if you are just putting the vehicle down you probably don't own one and are here for your kink of winding people up.
We then have the difference in the various mentality/attitude/nature of various nationalities. Some come across aggressive, some defensive and some just plain odd.
We all need to remember we are only typing stuff and nobody understands our true feeling and intent.
I have read a lot of posts on here and some with problems seem to come across very aggressive when others are being positive. Being positive is not a criticism of the negative just a moment that they are happy or not having the same problems so therefore 'they are not all like that', which seems to rile one with problems up?
These are just my observations, I wish we could all just take a breath, count to 10 and try and understand what others are trying to say and not just take it as a personal attack.
This is the only form of social media I do as it's something I have an invested interest in so I want it to be a helpful and understanding community, I care so much that I actually paid money & became a life time supporter & people who know me will tell you, that means a lot!!

I think i need to give up work and join a hippy commune for all the sh*te i keep spewing out on here!

 

[Earthwatcher]

It’s a long thread so haven’t read all but I’m keen to know if the letter to LC was written and whether she responded. I’m told that INEOS is scrambling to find replacement repair and service centres in the South of England. I’m having to wait two months for a service due now and I’m wondering if any new repair shops will have opened by then. Anything on the grapevine? I hope INEOS isn’t insisting on fancy service centres with all the branding nonsense that they had at the start. There are hundreds of good garages out there with mechanics who know their stuff. Just give them the info, parts and software to do the work.

 

[Tazzieman]

It’s a long thread so haven’t read all but I’m keen to know if the letter to LC was written and whether she responded. I’m told that INEOS is scrambling to find replacement repair and service centres in the South of England. I’m having to wait two months for a service due now and I’m wondering if any new repair shops will have opened by then. Anything on the grapevine? I hope INEOS isn’t insisting on fancy service centres with all the branding nonsense that they had at the start. There are hundreds of good garages out there with mechanics who know their stuff. Just give them the info, parts and software to do the work.

Yes, Formal reply slated for on 16th of May. Stay tuned.

 

[RYAustralia]

I wouldn't take it to heart, I enjoy your input, and did Annee's too. The reply from Stu was factual and in written text can come across as cold and scolding. I think this why we have half of the abuse on here. Typed messages do not get any emotions across, whether joking, helpful and especially sarcastic (my favourite) and when read cause upset and resentment to the person concerned where as others may see nothing but help or a joke.
There are certain people on here i wish I could meet in person as I do find their tone confusing, we all live in different countries and have different ways.

So true about different countries and speech /language nuances. And also different generations. My kids say because I text with full grammar and punctuation that I come across as aggressive and condescending. Sometimes albeit rarely I’m not even trying to be aggressive or condescending towards tham so that was a real surprise to me that gen z are threatened by apostrophes. lol.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

View: https://youtu.be/gwJ9DTv4ciQ?si=9a2zV6-P1ntjPoVv

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Own up, who’s that?

 

[CRH]

So true about different countries and speech /language nuances. And also different generations. My kids say because I text with full grammar and punctuation that I come across as aggressive and condescending. Sometimes albeit rarely I’m not even trying to be aggressive or condescending towards tham so that was a real surprise to me that gen z are threatened by apostrophes. lol.

I'm not one for using abbreviations, I know what LOL means but I get lost with a lot of it. I have started using a few laughing emoji with my customers but it felt wrong to do so. I must come access as being very aggressive to a lot of people
See, I can do emoji

 

[Logsplitter]

I’m positive about my Grenadier and Ineos automotive in general. I’m very confident that Independent service stations will come along in the U.K. it’s just a waiting game .
I think I may have the record for how many times agrenadier has been on a recovery truck. Five times inc three times in the first few weeks with power steering issues ultimately leading to a new power steering pump. Fourth time in the middle of Botswana where my transfer box cables rubbed on prop shaft and seized leaving me stuck in low ratio centre diff locked. In this instance with the help of a satellite communication,Ineos were fantastic and the Southern African Ineos HQ were so helpful. Finally I had the front prop shaft fail in the U.K. at low speed Never did find what caused this but I suspect the prop was not supported when disconnected for works so splitting the rubber boot. In all of this Ineos have been helpful and supportive if a little slow in getting parts.
I like this vehicle so much that I’m investing a lot of money into a lifting roof conversion , auxiliary fuel tank and an internal fit out. At the end of the day I think it’s the best vehicle out there for my overlanding use case.

 

[Tazzieman]

ha I think I just like taking the contrarian pov.

You're not the messiah. You're just a very naughty boy!

 

[RYAustralia]

I never anticipated that this thread would become what it has.


I approached the situation in a businesslike fashion. I have been running a business for over 20 years and I just used the same approach I would use with a client or supplier.
It would be a shame if this thread was the cause of members leaving the forum.
If you bring 10,000 people together you are bound to get personalities who clash, we can’t all have the same views or opinions. I would advise anyone to remember that. Just ignore the posts you find annoying and move on.

I still think that the overall effect of this thread and my letter has been positive, and that can only be a good thing. Of course I have the advantage that having spoken to Lynn Calder personally and so my own intuition comes in to play. I believe that she is sincere and genuine in her desire to put things right, that may not have come across in my responses following our conversation.

We will see what she comes up with next, she did say I’d have further information next week.

Well said Tom. I just remember that 5% of the population are sociopaths. Explains a lot about forums.

 

[RYAustralia]

From what I have gathered on this forum more than others it seems is sort of 3 “camps” the “Ineos is amazing and all the issues are NBD” or the “don’t comment just read and mostly passive” and the “ What a shit show why is Ineos so screwed up” and the clas is between groups 1 and 3. Anyone who has had any serious issue with the truck is shamed and told to stop complaining by the “I love my Grennie” group. Like anyone who has an issue should just be happy that Ineos made the truck and should accept all the problems as “normal” I myself have clashed with several people here who basically told me to either accept sub par no excuse build problems or “sell it and move on” that I should be grateful to the Ineos gods for building a truck that spent more time with the dealership then it did in my possession in a year of ownership. It seems group 1 and group 3 have very different views of how the forum should work as well. Group 1 wants only positive posts with no complaints, while group 3 wants solutions and to make it public that there are actual serious flaws with the truck. And to be honest this forum has had some pretty serious clashes that don’t make sense to me. I’ve never understood how people can choose to be so unkind to people having serious problems with a vehicle. Meanwhile others seem content to accept serious short comings as quaint Quirks that are NBD. I truly have no idea, it’s a strange forum.

The joys of humanity. Life is truly like a box of chocolate as someone famous once said.

 

[Tazzieman]

My kids say because I text with full grammar and punctuation that I come across as aggressive and condescending.

No, you're just old!