Is Ineos in financial woes?

[DoubleDoom]

Ratcliffe has put his superyacht Hampshire II up for sale. Never a good sign! I think Ineos Automotive will be sold within a year. But who would buy it?

AI has been unable to find any sources that it is for sale. The most recent info found it has just moved to Mallorca where Sir Jim is reported to have a home.

 

[Emil]

AI has been unable to find any sources that it is for sale. The most recent info found it has just moved to Mallorca where Sir Jim is reported to have a home.

There are confirmed reports that Andrew Currie put his yacht on sale, but given both gentlemen‘s personal net worth I am inclined to believe the statement that this is a private, non-business related decision.

 

[Tenac]

There are confirmed reports that Andrew Currie put his yacht on sale, but given both gentlemen‘s personal net worth I am inclined to believe the statement that this is a private, non-business related decision.

Yeah I was looking into his Yacht but its too small for my needs

 

[AWo]

Ratcliffe has put his superyacht Hampshire II up for sale. Never a good sign! I think Ineos Automotive will be sold within a year. But who would buy it?

Not for sale. He doesn't sell his toys....only his sites...

AWo

 

[AWo]

Due to the massive increase of the gas price in Europe (nearly doubled) due to the war in Middle East it will be of interest what happens to the largest Ineos site: Cologne. About +2.000 employees and 20 single chemical plants, an electrical power plant, a wastewater treatment plant and a steam plant.

They are struggling for more than three years now, while they were the most profitable site in the years before. Co2 and electrical power has become a heavy burden and they fight cheap chinese imports. They already closed three plants at the Cologne site and told the staff that terminations are welcome.

They rely heavily on gas, as they have two gas powered crackers which feed all other plants on this site. They produce important feed stock for some other chemical giants.

The chemical industry is like a domino game in Europe...if one site falls, other will follow....

AWo

 

[CRH]

Due to the massive increase of the gas price in Europe (nearly doubled) due to the war in Middle East it will be of interest what happens to the largest Ineos site: Cologne. About +2.000 employees and 20 single chemical plants, an electrical power plant, a wastewater treatment plant and a steam plant.

They are struggling for more three years now, while they were the most profitable site in the years before. Co2 and electrical power has become a heavy burden and they fight cheap chinese imports. They already closed three plants at the Cologne site and told the staff that terminations are welcome.

They rely heavily on gas, as they have two gas powered crackers which feed all other plants on this site. They produce important feed stock for some other chemical giants.

The chemical industry is like a domino game in Europe...if one site falls, other will follow....

AWo

European countries have lost the plot, being lectured to by children and then pushing through policy on their 13 year old childs advice with no thought to consequences. To cause job losses at home then allow untrustworthy countries to take advantage with state subsidised products is an act of self sabotage

 

[Tazzieman]

The reality for many of us is that Ineos needs to sell a lot more Grenadiers so they have a good exit option based on strong sales and potential they may even find a way to become independently successful.

All other outcomes end up with us driving dead end lemons.

Why lemon?
Parts are common to other brands.
I'd rather an Ineos than any Stellantis product. 37 billion loss last year.

 

[OkGo]

Why lemon?
Parts are common to other brands.
I'd rather an Ineos than any Stellantis product. 37 billion loss last year.

Parts for the Grenadier are pretty uncommon and hard to come by, a good example is the effort that folks went through to get a replacement pollen filter identified, or the effort needed to find a single wrench.

A bad example would be how recaro seats are custom fit, battery is a specific size or even the front drive shaft issues.

 

[Earthwatcher]

I stand corrected, it is Andy Currie, co-founder of INEOS who is selling his yacht, which happens to be called Hampshire. I still think the need to service £11 bn of debt for the group could well lead to some retrenchment. Given that the Grenadier is one of Ratcliffe's pet projects, however, I'd guess he'd be reluctant to part with it.

 

[255/85]

Given that the Grenadier is one of Ratcliffe's pet projects, however, I'd guess he'd be reluctant to part with it.

Ratcliffe has also said that the car venture better make money. His tone has always implied "or else".

 

[Tazzieman]

Parts for the Grenadier are pretty uncommon and hard to come by, a good example is the effort that folks went through to get a replacement pollen filter identified, or the effort needed to find a single wrench.

A bad example would be how recaro seats are custom fit, battery is a specific size or even the front drive shaft issues.

sDoesn't make it a lemon. Just a little challenge. You could fit aftermarket seats if so desired. Or find a wrecked vehicle.
Pollen filter? We never needed those in our Land Rovers.
Yes the drive shaft is a potential issue for some, but the part that goes bad is replaceable by a Jeep part. And god knows there are a billion of those on the planet.
The only issue as I see it are electronics going bad. Same as any modern SUV or 4wd. With 2-3x as many e- bits as the Ineos.
Anyway, if your risk appetite is poor, go with some other offering.

 

[OkGo]

sDoesn't make it a lemon. Just a little challenge.

...

Anyway, if your risk appetite is poor, go with some other offering.

This is the crux of it. If the brand falls apart you are left with nothing more than hope ( and it's not a whole lot better now, as it is )

 

[HRJ]

Figured this would be the place to ask…has anyone seen a Grenadier advertisement? I heard Lynn state on the Smoking Tire podcast that she would love more people to know about the vehicle but I do not recall seeing any ads.
Did I miss them, or do they not exist? And if it’s the latter, any theories as to why?

 

[AWo]

Ratcliffe has also said that the car venture better make money. His tone has always implied "or else".

That is so typically for the Ineos leadership culture.

If Ratcliffe had let the experts alone, designing and engineering the car, he could make such a statement. If they had listen to the good staff they had in the beginning and the external recommendations somewhat more often....

But, he himself took so much influence and in the end it was his soleyly idea.

It is not running as expected, so it is time to pass the buck and put pressure on the one who have to deal with the problems...

I can remember occasions, were we at Ineos invited experts to benefit from their knowledge, to start a project with them and get support, but my manager-manager stood in front of all and claimed "We know exactly how it works!", a term you hear often within Ineos....

AWo

 

[Bluesurf]

That is so typically for the Ineos leadership culture.

If Ratcliffe had let the experts alone, designing and engineering the car, he could make such a statement. If they had listen to the good staff they had in the beginning and the external recommendations somewhat more often....

But, he himself took so much influence and in the end it was his soleyly idea.

It is not running as expected, so it is time to pass the buck and put pressure on the one who have to deal with the problems...

I can remember occasions, were we at Ineos invited experts to benefit from their knowledge, to start a project with them and get support, but my manager-manager stood in front of all and claimed "We know exactly how it works!", a term you hear often within Ineos....

AWo

This company will not survive, their inaction is second to none. I said that two years ago on this forum several times. They always needed an experienced partner like BMW. Their Greed wouldn't allow for it. Now they are out to sea with no rudder. Much sooner that later. Today due to EU regulations and USA Tarrif's compasnies like BMW will survive since they build here in the USA. They won't touch a company stuck in the EU Regs. People with loans on their trucks will be upside down in no time. What a terrible situation. Selling off Yachts is so indicative of very choppy waters ahead! Just my opinion and I'm entitled to it just like all the other opinions on the forum.

 

[DoubleDoom]

This company will not survive, their inaction is second to none.

What inaction are you referring to?
Each model year corrects issues. That is not inaction.

Selling off Yachts is so indicative of very choppy waters ahead!

A director and the company itself are two different things. Ineos doesn't own the yacht.
Billionaires often sell or upgrade yachts for reasons ranging from changing lifestyle or buying a newer vessel to broader portfolio and liquidity management, so the sale on its own does not prove financial distress, even if it coincides with a period of higher debt and asset sales at INEOS.

 

[HRJ]

What inaction are you referring to?
Each model year corrects issues. That is not inaction.


A director and the company itself are two different things. Ineos doesn't own the yacht.
Billionaires often sell or upgrade yachts for reasons ranging from changing lifestyle or buying a newer vessel to broader portfolio and liquidity management, so the sale on its own does not prove financial distress, even if it coincides with a period of higher debt and asset sales at INEOS.

With that username, I didn’t expect your optimism.

 

[OkGo]

What inaction are you referring to?
Each model year corrects issues. That is not inaction.

Did the power steering issues get fixed ? Drive shaft ? Plenty of other bits and bobs too. The general service network in the UK is best described as 'pants' as well. Part availability is only marginally improving.

There is quite a lot of way to go before Ineos gets up to some reasonable state of operations.