Is Ineos in financial woes?

[Tazzieman]

Donald Duck confidently stated 3 days ago Iran would attack Israel.
He heard a rumour...and stoked another fake fire

 

[karoja]

I love the car, don't get me wrong, and I wish very much for it to succeed in its current 2 versions and see it grow in the future. It was never my intention of starting a rumor (which is going around, thats why the question), just legitimate concern. Hope it’s not true.

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Always remember, you don’t pay tax on losses.

 

[Eric]

Always remember, you don’t pay tax on losses.

Your new government is working on it though

 

[255/85]

It was never my intention of starting a rumor (which is going around, thats why the question),

But you're the only one that's heard a rumor so...

Just sayin'.

 

[Zimm]

This is right - people forget that it took Tesla 12ish years of losses before it saw its first dollar in profit. Its hard to start a new car company from scratch. There will always be people that say that XYZ start-up is losing $300K per car it sells, because they are dividing the initial investment cost among the few units sold in a particular year. That is as logical as someone spending $500K to open a pub and then a financial genius saying, "During the first hour after being open, the Quartermaster pub sold 10 pints which represents and astonishing loss of $50K per pint."

Elon Musk owes his entire existence to government subsidies Ineos is never going to get, so I don't think Tesla is the best analogy. No one is going to give Jim a 7500 dollar check for selling a gas hog. This here situation will be decided on pure uncut raw consumer demand.

 

[Mountain4x4]

If these shitty EV companies are taking so many years to go BK, I doubt Ineos will. And as so many others wreck their rigs staring at our rigs going to down the highway they will end up buying more and more of them. The 2.9% financing with integrated branding through a finance company was pretty smart. At first I was like, oh they must be desperate. But I given the level of development and integration, I think it was a well done smart move. Just as an example.

 

[AWo]

From February: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/15/chemicals-cars-man-utd-jim-ratcliffe-ineos

In the meantime Grangemouth is closed and a small part was transferred into a gas harbour. In Cologne three plants were closed forever and one of the very important heart plants, one of two gas crackers in Cologne, will be shut down for at least two years. It is uncertain if it will ever come up again. These things happen for the first time at the Cologne since the start in the 1950ties.

The site in Gladbeck was closed this month.

It will be difficult for the chemical part to continue supporting Automotive and all of JR's sport engagements at least in the next future.

AWo

 

[landmannnn]

From February: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/15/chemicals-cars-man-utd-jim-ratcliffe-ineos

In the meantime Grangemouth is closed and a small part was transferred into a gas harbour. In Cologne three plants were closed forever and one of the very important heart plants, one of two gas crackers in Cologne, will be shut down for at least two years. It is uncertain if it will ever come up again. These things happen for the first time at the Cologne since the start in the 1950ties.

The site in Gladbeck was closed this month.

It will be difficult for the chemical part to continue supporting Automotive and all of JR's sport engagements at least in the next future.

AWo

Seriously? €70bn turnover, 130 sites in 32 countries, closing a couple of loss making sites means they are trouble?
Scaremongering.

 

[Eric]

Seriously? €70bn turnover, 130 sites in 32 countries, closing a couple of loss making sites means they are trouble?
Scaremongering.

I'm buying Ineos deodorants, just to make sure they can pay for the warranty work on my vehicle

 

[Tom D]

Heavy industry and other energy intensive manufacturing is leaving Europe due to crazy Net Zero policies. No one is willing to pay more for gas that was "ethically cracked" therefore they will be moving production elsewhere.. I don't think it's anything to worry about. Unless you work at Grangemouth....

 

[AWo]

The number of sites is not so important. Important is which BU's contribute to the earnings and where they are located. There are many small sites and only a few big ones. The biggest is Cologne with five BU's incl. If the fat cows are in trouble the small ones can't compensate....so you also need to look how the turnaround is spread across the Ineos universe. Automotive at that time is also a loss making BU.

If all were at ease the ratings wouldn't go down for Ineos.

AWo

 

[Skydance]

I'm buying Ineos deodorants, just to make sure they can pay for the warranty work on my vehicle

That don’t work either. Ineos Hygienics sold out to a Middle Eastern company this May.

The reason why I looked into is. I have a Korean branded shower soap which smelt exactly same as the Ineos one. I’m pretty sure that Ineos are manufacturers who wholesale to other companies which repackage and rebrand them. Hence why Ineos Hygenics entered the market after Covid (retail side) but now sold out so Ineos is focussing on its core business which is manufacturing soaps and chemicals only.

 

[landmannnn]

The number of sites is not so important. Important is which BU's contribute to the earnings and where they are located. There are many small sites and only a few big ones. The biggest is Cologne with five BU's incl. If the fat cows are in trouble the small ones can't compensate....so you also need to look how the turnaround is spread across the Ineos universe. Automotive at that time is also a loss making BU.

If all were at ease the ratings wouldn't go down for Ineos.

AWo

It is correct that the chemical industry has considerable challenges, particularly in Europe.

It is also correct that Ineos Group Holdings and subsidiaries have reduced their financial commitments to many sporting organisations since that article was written. NZ Rugby, Tottenham Hotspur, F1 and potentially a JV with Total on the cycling team.

Ineos Group Holdings continues to acquire, dispose of and utilise joint ventures. It is possible that that the group could dispose of or JV Ineos Automotive. That would be pure speculation.


However it is not wise to judge an organisation's performance based on the credit rating. Credit ratings from the big 3 are focused on the organisation's ability to repay debts. Other key business metrics are not accounted for. Note Moody downgraded the USA earlier this year.

 

[KraigD]

Just an update: family members have been telling me they are starting to see ads on PlutoTV and during tennis on TV. Perhaps they have formulated a directed marketing campaign

 

[Roach]

@landmannnn while it might be speculation it makes sense to spin this off. Covered in other threads, it fixes some production and possibly many of the support issues.

Maybe owners should voice who would be a good partner. Seems natural for BMW but doesn’t Toyota use the same engine? Maybe Lexus or Infinity as their lux SUVs lacks a bit of panache.

 

[ADVAW8S]

@landmannnn while it might be speculation it makes sense to spin this off. Covered in other threads, it fixes some production and possibly many of the support issues.

Maybe owners should voice who would be a good partner. Seems natural for BMW but doesn’t Toyota use the same engine? Maybe Lexus or Infinity as their lux SUVs lacks a bit of panache.

Infinity is dead in water as Nissan is almost out of cash and the potential merger with Honda has been called off. Toyota has all they need with the Land cruiser. BMW would make sense but does it fit into their ethos. MB is a no go. You need a speciality group that focus on that space. I am tossing out MAN as a manufacturer that could add to its portfolio without diluting it.

 

[Roach]

I suppose a MAN/VW AG would be interesting. I like the idea of a pure truck company; peterbuilt, maybe Volvo, John Deere

 

[Eric]

That don’t work either. Ineos Hygienics sold out to a Middle Eastern company this May.

The reason why I looked into is. I have a Korean branded shower soap which smelt exactly same as the Ineos one. I’m pretty sure that Ineos are manufacturers who wholesale to other companies which repackage and rebrand them. Hence why Ineos Hygenics entered the market after Covid (retail side) but now sold out so Ineos is focussing on its core business which is manufacturing soaps and chemicals only.

Well if it's solid out, I'll go back to Old Spice

 

[TD5-90]

From February: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/feb/15/chemicals-cars-man-utd-jim-ratcliffe-ineos

In the meantime Grangemouth is closed and a small part was transferred into a gas harbour. In Cologne three plants were closed forever and one of the very important heart plants, one of two gas crackers in Cologne, will be shut down for at least two years. It is uncertain if it will ever come up again. These things happen for the first time at the Cologne since the start in the 1950ties.

The site in Gladbeck was closed this month.

It will be difficult for the chemical part to continue supporting Automotive and all of JR's sport engagements at least in the next future.

AWo

Lord, give us this day our daily AWo...
Nothing but boring.

If you were serious you would point out that this tells a lot about Europe, but very little about Ineos. And that little would be: They act reasonable & move on if the conditions for business get too bad somewhere.

Heavy industry and other energy intensive manufacturing is leaving Europe due to crazy Net Zero policies. No one is willing to pay more for gas that was "ethically cracked" therefore they will be moving production elsewhere.. I don't think it's anything to worry about. Unless you work at Grangemouth....

...or in Cologne.