Ineos want to manufacture in US

FT article this morning

Ineos Automotive is searching for sites to move production of its flagship 4x4 vehicle from France to the US, as its billionaire owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe continues to pump cash into the struggling carmaker.

Chief executive Lynn Calder told the Financial Times the group aimed to start producing its Grenadier off-roader in America “as quickly as possible” to meet local demand.

Client Challenge

 

[Zimm]

None of the tariffs are targeted, so discussion of them doing any good is moronic. The only goal stateside is to continually shift the tax burden from the rich to the poor, and for kickbacks from foreign governments that will play ball. Acting like these have anything to do with saving any particular US industry is comical, especially when every major durable good sector is telling us outright its hurting them. Notice how Chaina calmly used targeted tariffs to make it point without any self inflicted woulds.

All of the SE asian car manufacturers grew up in a protected market no different than what the Chinese have done with their electric cars. Friedman warned us a decade ago China was going to dominate the market if we didn't as a government concentrate on developing the electric market, and the 7500 dollar subsidy didn't really do that. It went to everyone domestic and foreign, and Tesla used it to line it's pockets and pump stock value for other projects. We should have tied the money to labor outcomes and profitability outcomes.

Cardboard box orders are way down in the US. Thats all you need to know about how US manufacturing sees the tariffs affecting the future.

 

[evomind]

From what I read in London a couple of days ago it's all over red rover.

How the US got left behind in the global electric car race

Despite a recent surge in demand, the US is a laggard in EV sales compared to much of the rest of the world.

www.bbc.com

We dont have the infrastructure in place to support EV.
We cant road trip them because we dont have the charging stations.
A few other problems as well.

 

[Zimm]

I'd love to see the Grenadiers built in their largest market country.

Do you think he's got the capital to move at all, and do you think there's ROI in the project?

 

[HeavyFoot]

You know those videos that show girls lighting a firework and giggling and then boys lighting gallons of gas on fire to see what happens? I’m the latter type. Flammable explosives? In my car? With noise??? Count me in!

 

[pmatusov]

Do you think he's got the capital to move at all, and do you think there's ROI in the project?

No idea, really.
The ROI margin could be as thin as the front driveline angles'.

 

[Tazzieman]

We dont have the infrastructure in place to support EV.
We cant road trip them because we dont have the charging stations.
A few other problems as well.

It takes govt subsidies and willpower.
Having just spent almost 4 weeks in the UK including remote Scotland/ Scottish islands I was surprised to see how much infrastructure exists.
Plenty of EVs and PHEVs around. Virtually no large 4X4s.

Problem is whether the grid can cope.
And copper is becoming a precious resource.

 

[Weatherman]

It takes govt subsidies and willpower.
Having just spent almost 4 weeks in the UK including remote Scotland/ Scottish islands I was surprised to see how much infrastructure exists.
Plenty of EVs and PHEVs around. Virtually no large 4X4s.

Problem is whether the grid can cope.
And copper is becoming a precious resource.

The grid is the easy part. You can use power only at night when demand is much lower. The average person only needs a few hours of charging to cover their daily commute. A charging schedule can be programmed into the car or the charger. All that is required to convince the average person to do this is time-of-day based billing, which is already common for commercial customers.

 

[landmannnn]

It takes govt subsidies and willpower.
Having just spent almost 4 weeks in the UK including remote Scotland/ Scottish islands I was surprised to see how much infrastructure exists.
Plenty of EVs and PHEVs around. Virtually no large 4X4s.

Problem is whether the grid can cope.
And copper is becoming a precious resource.

Loads of large 4x4s around...

In any affluent area at school pickup time virtually every vehicle is a 4x4.
Then parked up for the other 23.5 hours of the day on the gravelled driveway.

 

[HeavyFoot]

It takes govt subsidies and willpower.
Having just spent almost 4 weeks in the UK including remote Scotland/ Scottish islands I was surprised to see how much infrastructure exists.
Plenty of EVs and PHEVs around. Virtually no large 4X4s.

Problem is whether the grid can cope.
And copper is becoming a precious resource.

So how do large families move about without large vehicles?

 

[Tazzieman]

The grid is the easy part. You can use power only at night when demand is much lower. The average person only needs a few hours of charging to cover their daily commute. A charging schedule can be programmed into the car or the charger. All that is required to convince the average person to do this is time-of-day based billing, which is already common for commercial customers.

In Australia , the grid is struggling with the amount homeowners are generating.
It's not a compact country!
Our personal offset is pretty poor, thus we have a battery for afterhours.
Close to offgrid now , even at 42 degS and with an EV.

 

[Shopkeep]

At the end of the day, cheap wages.
It's a Temu world , and people are slobbering to get a part of it.

But low wages are not what is driving the Chinese dominance of EVs. It is a massive addressable domestic market (world’s biggest car market), innovation in design and production, a strong entrepreneurial drive (in a communist country???) and a whole of government approach to dominate the sector. If wages were the key driver we would be seeing EVs from India, Vietnam and Mexico where manufacturing wages are far lower.

 

[LC0013]

None of the tariffs are targeted, so discussion of them doing any good is moronic.

A 10% Targeted or 10 % shotgun blast tariff will have the same effect on the item in question. Shotgun blast has an effect or policy makers would not utilize them and your opinion of whether they are good or not is irrelevant as they will still be levied.

Most Economist are of the opinion that tariffs are not good but every country levies them. Guess they are not very good persuaders or, perhaps, their assessment of their use is wrong.

 

[HeavyFoot]

But low wages are not what is driving the Chinese dominance of EVs. It is a massive addressable domestic market (world’s biggest car market), innovation in design and production, a strong entrepreneurial drive (in a communist country???) and a whole of government approach to dominate the sector. If wages were the key driver we would be seeing EVs from India, Vietnam and Mexico where manufacturing wages are far lower.

And you forgot taking research from other companies/countries. That helps a bit I’m afraid.

 

[Shopkeep]

And you forgot taking research from other companies/countries. That helps a bit I’m afraid.

And that has never occurred in the USA? I think you have a very successful and dominant space program built on the research of a liberated German with a questionable political background?

 

[LC0013]

As old Winston said "we must learn to be equally good at what is short and sharp and what is long and tough".

 

[Max]

Fact, fiction or just crystal ball s**t?
AI Overview

Yes, Ineos Automotive is considering building a manufacturing plant in the USA to serve the American market, which accounts for a significant portion of its global sales. This move is motivated by the large demand for pickup trucks in the U.S. and to help avoid the 25% Chicken Tax on imported vehicles. Ineos has already established new leadership, expanded its dealer network, and moved its U.S. headquarters to New Jersey to support its growth in the region.

Why Ineos wants to build in the USA:

• Strong Market for Pickup Trucks:
  The U.S. market has a substantial demand for pickup trucks, and Ineos aims to capture a share of this segment with its Quartermaster pickup.
  
  
• To Avoid Tariffs:
  A U.S. manufacturing plant would allow Ineos to avoid the 25% Chicken Tax on imported vehicles, which would help keep prices in check for American customers.
  
  
• Significant Sales in North America:
  The U.S. and Canadian markets together represent about 65% of Ineos's global sales.
  

Steps Ineos has taken to grow in the U.S. market:

• New U.S. Leadership:
  The company appointed Gregor Hembrough, formerly of Polestar, as its executive vice president of U.S. operations in late 2024.
• Expanded Dealer Network:
  Ineos is increasing its dealership network in the U.S., with plans to grow from 32 to 41 dealers by the end of 2025.
• New U.S. Headquarters:
  Ineos is relocating its U.S. headquarters to Montvale, New Jersey, placing it in a central hub for the automotive industry.

 

[Tazzieman]

View attachment 7910172

Very true. And I have no wish for eternal life with all the billions of sinners and crazies " up there".
When I'm done, sharpen me at one end and drive me into the earth.

 

[AWo]

Ok, so what would you see will be manufactured in the US and what in Europe to be shipped to the US?

A good example would be the Recaro seats. Either you ship them (tariffs) or if you find an US manufacturer. But then you have to get a new homologation. I assume there are more examples: the body panels, axles or the frame. New axles alone would mean so much changes to the car....
There also might be licenses, so Ineos is bound to a manufacturer if they want to stay with that part and design ( headlights for example ) or they find a new manufacturer.
In the case of the headlights, which have a unique size (I said here already, bad strategic decision) , you either need to modify the mounting in the car (changing other parts and the car design) or you find a manufacturer who can build this size (what means new tooling for the light manufacturer, new costs for Ineos regarding the development, add at least 1,5-2 years for that incl. homologation of that single part for three world markets).

Beside the cost for a change itself there are higher costs for US manufactured parts likely. Ineos has started (at least they try) to source more parts in China, to lower the costs. Where is the sense to buy more expensive parts again?

One should remember, beside planes and aircraft carriers, building a car is one of the most complex things to do and that means a highly complex supply chain. You can't change that as easy as a statement "We like to produce in the US" is said. There is a reason why car manufacturers decide before they build a model where they are going to do that.

It is not as easy as one might think...

AWo