Ineos want to manufacture in US

FT article this morning

Ineos Automotive is searching for sites to move production of its flagship 4x4 vehicle from France to the US, as its billionaire owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe continues to pump cash into the struggling carmaker.

Chief executive Lynn Calder told the Financial Times the group aimed to start producing its Grenadier off-roader in America “as quickly as possible” to meet local demand.

Client Challenge

 

[LeeroyJ]

If we are not going to subsidize domestic auto producers so that they can compete on an even footing with foreign auto producers, then our domestic auto producers are screwed. That is what is happening. The tariffs wont fix that.

 

[Tazzieman]

From what I read in London a couple of days ago it's all over red rover.

How the US got left behind in the global electric car race

Despite a recent surge in demand, the US is a laggard in EV sales compared to much of the rest of the world.

www.bbc.com

 

[Brad@SuperiorCO]

At Octoberfest George Ratcliff was asked this question and stated IG would start production in the US if it made business sense. He reflected they are not at full production in Hambach and that was a sizable investment. But they do look, and evaluate. As far as being profitable, here we are 22 years after Tesla launched the first model and Tesla is not positive EBIT yet. My bet the "quickly as possible" is to make the investment community happy, but it would be years in the future until it even could happen. And then all the parts would be from Europe.

Pretty difficult time to start a new car line, covid and tariffs.

 

[LC0013]

If we are not going to subsidize domestic auto producers so that they can compete on an even footing with foreign auto producers, then our domestic auto producers are screwed. That is what is happening. The tariffs wont fix that.

Yes Tariffs will fix that as they help offset ridiculously low slave labour costs and foreign government subsidies.

 

[LC0013]

From what I read in London a couple of days ago it's all over red rover.

How the US got left behind in the global electric car race

Despite a recent surge in demand, the US is a laggard in EV sales compared to much of the rest of the world.

www.bbc.com

This is fine. Turnabout is fair play as we can steal their technology in 5 years or so.

 

[Tazzieman]

This is fine. Turnabout is fair play as we can steal their technology in 5 years or so.

You guys invading Taiwan as well?

 

[LC0013]

You guys invading Taiwan as well?

I have no idea as to what you are talking about.

 

[Tazzieman]

I have no idea as to what you are talking about.

Ditto. You are predicting the future of the world in 5 years!

 

[LeeroyJ]

Yes Tariffs will fix that as they help offset ridiculously low slave labour costs and foreign government subsidies.

The Tariffs are a temporary fix, in the US only. They will be gone when the next administration is in power. More importantly though, they are not providing a positive boost to capturing world market share. So the US EV manufacturers still have their hands tied while Chinese manufactures are receiving strong government support to help them take the lead.

 

[LC0013]

Ditto. You are predicting the future of the world in 5 years!

Not at all. Just saying the Chinese stole (and still steal) our technology so we can just steal their EV technology in 5 years if it that great, which it probably will not be. Your "invading Taiwan" statement is without merit.

 

[LC0013]

The Tariffs are a temporary fix, in the US only. They will be gone when the next administration is in power. More importantly though, they are not providing a positive boost to capturing world market share. So the US EV manufacturers still have their hands tied while Chinese manufactures are receiving strong government support to help them take the lead.

Perhaps not a US only fix:

The global war over electric vehicles (EV) has heated up in the past few weeks and threatens to get even hotter in the coming months. On June 12, 2024, the European Commission announced provisional penalty tariffs ranging from 17.4% to 38.1% against EVs imported from China. The European Union’s (EU) move to counter Chinese subsidies followed the Biden administration’s imposition of tariffs in mid-May against a range of high-tech products from China, including 100% tariffs on EVs and 25% on EV batteries.

 

[Tazzieman]

Not at all. Just saying the Chinese stole (and still steal) our technology so we can just steal their EV technology in 5 years if it that great, which it probably will not be. Your "invading Taiwan" statement is without merit.

I was just making a wild theoretical statement, from the playbook of the idiot. Anyway, this thread should be most entertaining , if it lasts more than 12 months.

 

[LC0013]

I was just making a wild theoretical statement, from the playbook of the idiot. Anyway, this thread should be most entertaining , if it lasts more than 12 months.

Let's hope it does not last that long!

 

[HeavyFoot]

That BBC article was funny. It clearly points out that the only reason many people are buying them and the only reason some parts of the world are “ahead” is government “investments” and policy! If the people, without the government manipulation, don’t want them as much, then don’t make so many. If the cost is too high and people aren’t buying, don’t make them. Demand can be regional. In the EU the demand is skewed by the EU’s policies. That’s not true consumer driven demand. I can’t say my son likes peas because he ate them when I bribe him to eat them or starve him until he eats them. That doesn’t mean he likes them. The statistics in that article are the same. The demand can be cultural as well. I have a bidet in my house. I’m outside the norm in the US. I think they’re great and I can’t understand why more on this continent don’t use them! But that’s me. I don’t demand others have one. I think they’d be better for it. I can tell them why they should. You may love EVs. I don’t. Not. One. Bit. Convince me and so many other of my compatriots and EV sales in the US will go up. I don’t think that makes us “behind”, that makes us free to choose.

 

[Tazzieman]

Let's hope it does not last that long!

As old Winston said "we must learn to be equally good at what is short and sharp and what is long and tough".

Probably something Jim Ratcliffe lives by.
"Grit, rigour and humour" being the company ethos.
All power to Ineos in these erratic times.

 

[OkGo]

Let's hope it does not last that long!

Or someone find oil under taiwan

 

[LeeroyJ]

That BBC article was funny. It clearly points out that the only reason many people are buying them and the only reason some parts of the world are “ahead” is government “investments” and policy! If the people, without the government manipulation, don’t want them as much, then don’t make so many. If the cost is too high and people aren’t buying, don’t make them. Demand can be regional. In the EU the demand is skewed by the EU’s policies. That’s not true consumer driven demand. I can’t say my son likes peas because he ate them when I bribe him to eat them or starve him until he eats them. That doesn’t mean he likes them. The statistics in that article are the same. The demand can be cultural as well. I have a bidet in my house. I’m outside the norm in the US. I think they’re great and I can’t understand why more on this continent don’t use them! But that’s me. I don’t demand others have one. I think they’d be better for it. I can tell them why they should. You may love EVs. I don’t. Not. One. Bit. Convince me and so many other of my compatriots and EV sales in the US will go up. I don’t think that makes us “behind”, that makes us free to choose.

 

[LeeroyJ]

Back to the original point of this thread though, there are quite a few under-utilized auto factories in the US right now that could work for Ineos. That would probably make a lot more sense than building from scratch.

 

[bigleonski]

Contrary to most people here (who paid a high price for a quality vehicle), the majority of people buy on price, the cheaper the better and if it has all the gadgets and it’s cheap as chips it will sell. Regardless of short term quality.
Ala cheap Chinese cars/EV’s.
We have become a junk economy.

Now, while the Chinese manufacturers make a car for a dollar, and with CCP government rebates they can sell it to the rest of the world for 80 cents, and in the rest of the world they make the same quality car for $1.30 and have to add a proft margin so sell it for $1.40, well then the ROW car manufacturers are well and truely stuffed.

Tarrifs might even out the playing field a little, but if the CCP game plan is to dominate the market, and they think the long game as the Chinese always do, then it’s a hard game for the ROW to win as they have deep deep pockets.