Ineos want to manufacture in US

FT article this morning

Ineos Automotive is searching for sites to move production of its flagship 4x4 vehicle from France to the US, as its billionaire owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe continues to pump cash into the struggling carmaker.

Chief executive Lynn Calder told the Financial Times the group aimed to start producing its Grenadier off-roader in America “as quickly as possible” to meet local demand.

Client Challenge

 

[CRH]

London yesterday. Aspirational, practical motoring. Just don"t get creamed by a bus!View attachment 7910040

That's a K at the end of the reg plate, I'm not driving one of those things

 

[Tazzieman]

Do you believe everyone wants one?Surely you can’t.

No , not 100%. But for example in Norway they love them. 90% of new car sales. Clean, cheap power and tax freaks.
My wife owns a rocketship Volvo twin motor EV. Loves it. I can drag most ICE cars off the lights if I was so inlclined ( but I'm a grown up). It doesn't need services ( OK maybe wiper blades/fresh air filter every 3 years) , doesn't chew brakes (regen) and costs USD5 a week electron fee to cover 10000+ miles/year. ( even done the foreign maths for you ;<)).
So depending upon your own lens , it can work brilliantly.
Oh and we refuel at home. 3 phase power/ big solar.
EVs can make a lot of sense.
As always, it depends on one's little personal situation.

 

[Eric]

Ha ha someone driving around on fake plates ( or the car is less than 2 days old ?)

1st September registration, 38 days

 

[Tazzieman]

1st September registration, 38 days

New money. Unexplained wealth. Don't question.

 

[HeavyFoot]

No , not 100%. But for example in Norway they love them. 90% of new car sales. Clean, cheap power and tax freaks.
My wife owns a rocketship Volvo twin motor EV. Loves it. I can drag most ICE cars off the lights if I was so inlclined ( but I'm a grown up). It doesn't need services ( OK maybe wiper blades/fresh air filter every 3 years) , doesn't chew brakes (regen) and costs USD5 a week electron fee to cover 10000+ miles/year. ( even done the foreign maths for you ;<)).
So depending upon your own lens , it can work brilliantly.
Oh and we refuel at home. 3 phase power/ big solar.
EVs can make a lot of sense.
As always, it depends on one's little personal situation.

Those that love them can have them. To me they have no soul - but I don’t knock you for loving it. What disturbs me is the manipulation of the demand. In our country the tax benefits given for buying one cheapen the item for those that usually afford their own car anyway, increase the tax burden upon those that don’t benefit from them, and in the long run will hurt the poor in my opinion. Our president (not everything orange man does is bad, don’t be scared) has the tax benefits expiring any day now, if they’ve not already. Now we will actually be able to see what people here want.

 

[FlyersFan76]

Ummm, on LInkedIn Ineos Automotive wrote they lost €30mn, FT wrote $290mn in 2024....that is quite a difference, isn't it? Also, on LinkedIn they told everything goes in the right direction, they are strong blablabla...and they told FT they'd rather go to the US.

I see some challenges for Ineos Automotive here...moving to the US is costly and chemical business units do not have money, actually. Looking at other caf brands, they all took their specialists from their home country to the US to build the production facilities (The CEO of Ford Jim Farley stated a few days ago, that he sees a real crisis in missing specialist who can build car plants in the US, so he understands why Hyundai brought over their own staff).
Ineos haven't done such a thing, yet (again something where they are newbies). The last time this has become visible was the ICE raid at Huyndai. So who are the specialists Ineos takes to the US and who wants to go, always facing the thread of being arrested. IMHO the only chance is take over an existing facility and that also means there is a lot to do....and pay.

However, at least FT confirmed what I was writing here already and what was questioned all the time...Ineos Automotive has only survived because the chemical business pumped a massive amount of money into Automotive. All in all, reading the FT article, Ineos Chemicals pumped $3bn to Automotive and they borrowed $232mn from banks, while downrated to a high risk level. Sounds solid....

AWo

They do not necessarily need to take over an existing facility. There are contract manufacturers in the US. AM General made the R-Class for Mercedes for export. They own(ed) the H2 plant and not sure what they are using it for now. Magna has plants in NA as well.

Pure speculation on my part.

 

[TD5-90]

Developing the Fusilier will eat up another billion and more. Where from?

Not out of your pocket. So: Why would you care?

 

[Tazzieman]

Those that love them can have them. To me they have no soul - but I don’t knock you for loving it.

I don't love it...like most cars it's merely an appliance that does what we need, has been totally capable and reliable and oprrable at relatively small cost.
Which leaves moola for the soulful mix of pre 1986 cars I run regularly!

 

[Shopkeep]

London yesterday. Aspirational, practical motoring. Just don"t get creamed by a bus!View attachment 7910040

Would have to be very careful where you parked that virtue signalling object. Leave it overnight too close to a pub or a university and you would come back in the morn to find it perched on top of another car or a commercial rubbish bin.

 

[AWo]

I think moving the whole production to the US is an insubstantial "threat" addressed to the EU politicians.

That's not done in 6 month or a year or three years and costs a lot. The tooling you need is so expensive, then you need to get the drivetrain, axles, frames and all of that from Europe to the US (tariffs again) or you start everything from scratch there...no, no way

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

Would have to be very careful where you parked that virtue signalling object. Leave it overnight too close to a pub or a university and you would come back in the morn to find it perched on top of another car or a commercial rubbish bin.

It will be popped back into its little bed in the mews every night. It's no larger than a horsie after all!

 

[Zimm]

London yesterday. Aspirational, practical motoring. Just don"t get creamed by a bus!View attachment 7910040

I always found it a tad bit ironic, that we legislate how safe a car should be, but yet I can ride 200mph motorcycle. I'm not opposed to car safety rules mind you, I just think it's a tad funny.

 

[Jeremy996]

Having driven a Microlino, it is a really nice bit of kit, (as a city car). One of the Morgan dealers sells them in the UK, £17,990 OTR. https://krazyhorse.co.uk/products/microlino

Speed is limited, the range is limited and a bigger battery is £3500. It is improbably cute. For a Grand less, you can get one a 16 year old can operate on a restricted licence.

 

[Zimm]

In a world of seemingly infinite possibilities, sometimes its easier to identify what will not happen as opposed to what will.

One thing that's not happening, is Grenadier production in the US.

 

[Jeremy996]

I always found it a tad bit ironic, that we legislate how safe a car should be, but yet I can ride 200mph motorcycle. I'm not opposed to car safety rules mind you, I just think it's a tad funny.

On a bike you are most likely to kill yourself. (There is a reason the Emergency Room, (A&E), staff call motorbike riders "donors"). In a car, you will, most likely, kill the people around you. It strikes me as pragmatic rather than ironic.

 

[Zimm]

On a bike you are most likely to kill yourself. (There is a reason the Emergency Room, (A&E), staff call motorbike riders "donors"). In a car, you will, most likely, kill the people around you. It strikes me as pragmatic rather than ironic.

I'm clearly talking about driver safety. Whether I hit a tree or a car hits me, The outcome on a cbr1000rr and new mini cooper is completely different. I can still choose to ride the bike, but I am not permitted to choose the cooper without airbags and host of other safety electronics, which would still ostensibly be safer than the bike. hence the little bit of irony.

 

[HeavyFoot]

I'm clearly talking about driver safety. Whether I hit a tree or a car hits me, The outcome on a cbr1000rr and new mini cooper is completely different. I can still choose to ride the bike, but I am not permitted to choose the cooper without airbags and host of other safety electronics, which would still ostensibly be safer than the bike. hence the little bit of irony.

And let’s not forget in 25 years you can import that car with fewer and outdated safety features but you can’t have one now with similar safety features. I’m so glad we have them to keep us safe.

 

[Jeremy996]

I'm clearly talking about driver safety. Whether I hit a tree or a car hits me, The outcome on a cbr1000rr and new mini cooper is completely different. I can still choose to ride the bike, but I am not permitted to choose the cooper without airbags and host of other safety electronics, which would still ostensibly be safer than the bike. hence the little bit of irony.

I would hope that laws are written for wider society rather than just to save an idiot from themselves. Much safety legislation was intended to stop manufacturers making cars that were unsafe for the occupants, as capitalism favours cheap/dangerous over costly/safe. Still, politicians.........?

 

[Zimm]

I would hope that laws are written for wider society rather than just to save an idiot from themselves. Much safety legislation was intended to stop manufacturers making cars that were unsafe for the occupants, as capitalism favours cheap/dangerous over costly/safe. Still, politicians.........?

I'm not making a larger moral or political argument, just pointing out some inconsistencies in life.

 

[pmatusov]

The US car industry developed and marketed the major model change every few years. Considering this if Ineos built a factory in the US would there be enough demand for new Grenadiers in five years without major technical and aesthetic changes? G Wagon, LR Defender, LC and Nissan Patrol wagons all changed considerably to keep relevant in the current market.

Solid-axle Jeep proves otherwise.