Ineos want to manufacture in US

FT article this morning

Ineos Automotive is searching for sites to move production of its flagship 4x4 vehicle from France to the US, as its billionaire owner Sir Jim Ratcliffe continues to pump cash into the struggling carmaker.

Chief executive Lynn Calder told the Financial Times the group aimed to start producing its Grenadier off-roader in America “as quickly as possible” to meet local demand.

Client Challenge

 

[HereinDaRockies]

The US car industry developed and marketed the major model change every few years. Considering this if Ineos built a factory in the US would there be enough demand for new Grenadiers in five years without major technical and aesthetic changes? G Wagon, LR Defender, LC and Nissan Patrol wagons all changed considerably to keep relevant in the current market.

G wagon has not changed in 40 years.. the us market has had the same Toyota 4Runner for 15 years at one point

 

[AWo]

G wagon has not changed in 40 years.. the us market has had the same Toyota 4Runner for 15 years at one point

Of course it has changed. Just look at the suspension change in 2018. There also have been facelifts and engine changes over the years

There was also a new military model W464 introduced in 2023.

AWo

 

[Logsplitter]

How much money does IA want to burn?

IA: Yes

I don’t know how much IA wants to burn but if I had to make a bet and I’m not a betting man, then I would trust Jim Radcliffe’s judgement over the judgement of many on this forum. Lynn Calder notes that moving Grenadier production to the US will depend on clarity about the EU’s petrol engine ban that is due to take effect in 2035. Ineos cannot make such an investment before knowing it would be able to use the French plant to produce its new Fusilier.

 

[AWo]

Ineos abandoned the development of the Fusilier and kicked out Magna. This situation was homemade, all that legislation was known before Hambach was choosen. It is up to them to continue and to see if the Fusilier can be made in Hambach. They had talks with Chery about building Chery cars in Hambach.

Developing the Fusilier will eat up another billion and more. Where from?

AWo

 

[Baron von Teuchter]

Personally I’m not convinced I see a market for the fusilier tbh.

More variants of the Grenadier - absolutely. SWB Station Wagon, SWB Van, LWB single cab, XLWB 2 door van etc. even an SWB soft top might sell well and all on an established platform.

 

[NQ94]

Ineos abandoned the development of the Fusilier and kicked out Magna. This situation was homemade, all that legislation was known before Hambach was choosen. It is up to them to continue and to see if the Fusilier can be made in Hambach. They had talks with Chery about building Chery cars in Hambach.

Developing the Fusilier will eat up another billion and more. Where from?

AWo

Maybe a joint venture, Chery Fusilier. Most other Euro car and truck manufacturers have joint ventures or factories in China, a Chinese company with a jv in Europe could work.

 

[Shopkeep]

Personally I’m not convinced I see a market for the fusilier tbh.

More variants of the Grenadier - absolutely. SWB Station Wagon, SWB Van, LWB single cab, XLWB 2 door van etc. even an SWB soft top might sell well and all on an established platform.

I think the announcement is just Ineos flying a kite while waiting out the next 1203 days. They are trying to put pressure on the EU to review the future restrictions on ICE vehicles.

I can’t figure out who is the target market for the Fusilier. I love my Grenadier but I would not buy one, while I would buy an EV as a second vehicle it would be from an established experienced brand in the EV field and not from a fringe company dabbling in it. The general public still do not know who or what Ineos are or what they stand for, if the mainstream are reluctant to buy an EV from Tesla or VW they won’t be buying it from Ineos in any volume.

 

[landmannnn]

I think the announcement is just Ineos flying a kite while waiting out the next 1203 days. They are trying to put pressure on the EU to review the future restrictions on ICE vehicles.

I can’t figure out who is the target market for the Fusilier. I love my Grenadier but I would not buy one, while I would buy an EV as a second vehicle it would be from an established experienced brand in the EV field and not from a fringe company dabbling in it. The general public still do not know who or what Ineos are or what they stand for, if the mainstream are reluctant to buy an EV from Tesla or VW they won’t be buying it from Ineos in any volume.

Here in the UK the tide appears to be turning on EVs.

Out walking the dog, plenty of houses in my neighbourhood have EVs in their driveways.

Brands like BYD, MG, Jaecoo, Omodo, Lotus and Tesla (of course). I don't think those who choose to have a car for 3 years on some kind of lease deal are as brand loyal as you might think.

 

[Shopkeep]

Here in the UK the tide appears to be turning on EVs.

Out walking the dog, plenty of houses in my neighbourhood have EVs in their driveways.

Brands like BYD, MG, Jaecoo, Omodo, Lotus and Tesla (of course). I don't think those who choose to have a car for 3 years on some kind of lease deal are as brand loyal as you might think.

But that’s my point: I would buy an EV from BYD, Chery or Geely any day over an Ineos as they are actually fully committed to the EV space with massive R&D and advanced global production capacity. They will be the Establishment in five years time, probably with Euro factories and on their 10th generation when Ineos are rebadging or cobbling together their first generation product from the parts bin.

 

[AWo]

But....if the Trump administration will not last and Ineos will raise plants in the US, they may face strict environmental legislation there, as well, just when they have moved...it is a risky bet, except JR is convinced, that the Trump administration will last forever....

AWo

 

[Tazzieman]

Here in the UK the tide appears to be turning on EVs.

Out walking the dog, plenty of houses in my neighbourhood have EVs in their driveways.

Brands like BYD, MG, Jaecoo, Omodo, Lotus and Tesla (of course). I don't think those who choose to have a car for 3 years on some kind of lease deal are as brand loyal as you might think.

London yesterday. Aspirational, practical motoring. Just don"t get creamed by a bus!

 

[OkGo]

Is that a frame grab from a movie? Or is that someone driving around on fake number plates ?

 

[Tazzieman]

Is that a frame grab from a movie? Or is that someone driving around on fake number plates ?

It's a real , taken by me photo I can assure you.

 

[OkGo]

Ha ha someone driving around on fake plates ( or the car is less than 2 days old ?)

 

[Gaffer]

The US car industry developed and marketed the major model change every few years. Considering this if Ineos built a factory in the US would there be enough demand for new Grenadiers in five years without major technical and aesthetic changes? G Wagon, LR Defender, LC and Nissan Patrol wagons all changed considerably to keep relevant in the current market.

Not very much for many Jeeps. Perhaps this niche is different.

 

[landmannnn]

It's

Ha ha someone driving around on fake plates ( or the car is less than 2 days old ?)

It's an Italian made "car" called a Microlino. EV, officially a quadricycle. Cost a bit over £20k which is over double the Citroën Ami being a similar vehicle.

 

[Tazzieman]

It's
It's an Italian made "car" called a Microlino. EV, officially a quadricycle. Cost a bit over £20k which is over double the Citroën Ami being a similar vehicle.

If you can afford London, it is but a financial scratch!

 

[HeavyFoot]

All the manufacturers try to play the “political winds” game. They release statements and half-hearted actions that gain them the most favorability with the powers that be, while keeping one foot in one camp and one foot in the other. And can you blame them? For the last decade and a half they’ve been told what they need to do and they’ve been given deadlines and demands that have not been realistic. They’re not stupid. There’s a reason they’re all walking back their “future production plans”. They know it’s not feasible to be 100% EV by 2035. The fact that the EU is destroying the industry by creating so much wasted effort and wasted funding is maddening. The EU as well as others (CA, looking at you) is forgetting almost an entire half of the equation. Capitalism is driven by those willing to supply and those that create the demand. Let’s be honest with ourselves - 100% of the people don’t want an EV. I don’t. Forcing great brands to pretend to be all in will only create confusion. Markets like certainty. Ineos needs as much certainty as it can get right now, and there’s little to be found. When the powers that be try to manipulate the market by manipulating the demand, we will be left with companies destroyed, effort wasted, and a worse product. How many of us would love a Grenadier without some of the features required to be in a vehicle that increase cost and complexity to repair? The old adage “the better machine is the one with the fewest parts” isn’t entirely wrong. To prove my point, we need only look at dishwashers. 25 years ago ours would wash and DRY dishes in 35 minutes. And they’d be washed and dried. Now? They cost more, don’t last, don’t wash, definitely do NOT dry, and they take hours! But hey, we’re all better for it. If the governments around the world want businesses to succeed, they need to get out of the way. Let’s Ineos build what they want. Where they want. If the people want their product, they’ll buy it. If not, they won’t and they’ll fail. It’ll be sad if they fail in part because they were on an ever-tightening leach but have a great idea and product.

 

[Tazzieman]

"100% of the people don’t want an EV."
Sounds like something the orange guy would say. Although TBH he'd say 200%.

 

[HeavyFoot]

"100% of the people don’t want an EV."
Sounds like something the orange guy would say. Although TBH he'd say 200%.

Do you believe everyone wants one?Surely you can’t.