The Grenadier Forum
Register Now for enhanced site access.
INEOS Agents, Dealers or Commercial vendors please contact admin@theineosforum.com for a commercial account.

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Grenadier testing about to start

emax

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local Group Moderator
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
5,304
Reaction score
8,686
Location
Germany
The source I used was using the NABU study but converted sulphur to CO2 either by intention or simply by stupidity.
Never trust a green source.
 

bemax

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
May 12, 2022
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
4,696
Location
Germany
@bemax you re right. Mea culpa. The sources were originally quoted from NABU - a German NGO in Environmental Protection. - The source I used was using the NABU study but converted sulphur to CO2 either by intention or simply by stupidity. My fault was not to check the true source of origin.

However - The regulation since 2020 permits only marine fuel with less than 0.5% sulphur- previously 3.5% (Ground transport 0.001%) but that is not CO2 - so I am wrong and you are right.

- but still - the Containerships emit still quite a lot (powernwz CH - German language) 2.6 % of total, like airtraffic, and all ground transport 18%
Data around 2020.
The big problem of the heavy ships indeed is not the CO2 but the pollution by burning heavy oil without the filters. And if they dump the filtered stuff in the sea there is a dead spot right there for a while.
 

Max

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
1:46 PM
Joined
May 9, 2022
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
2,258
Location
Sunshine Coast Queensland Australia
In California, scientists have just now created fusion using Hydrogen to produce a superpower, unlike other nuclear reactors it does not produce harmful waste...I am sure our Sir Jim will be happy.
 

Jean Mercier

GG#920
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
Sep 10, 2022
Messages
2,357
Reaction score
8,288
Location
Sint-Martens-Latem, Belgium
In California, scientists have just now created fusion using Hydrogen to produce a superpower, unlike other nuclear reactors it does not produce harmful waste...I am sure our Sir Jim will be happy.
That's right :ROFLMAO:
But I don't want to have a factory on top of my Grenadier: probably I will have to reinforce my suspension :p

By the way, congratulations, it's the first time they get more energy out of it than they have to feed it! (of course discounting the investment of the equipment / factory)!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Max

Davman

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
4:46 AM
Joined
Apr 16, 2022
Messages
1,049
Reaction score
2,204
Location
Yarra Valley, Victoria, Australia
Not too excited just yet.

Tony Roulstone, a nuclear energy expert at the University of Cambridge, estimated that the energy output of the experiment was only 0.5 per cent of the energy that was needed to fire the lasers in the first place.

My Flux Capacitor Grenadier will have to wait for a bit longer I feel.

Hydrogen one might be a bit closer though.
 

emax

Photo Contest Winner
Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local Group Moderator
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
Feb 23, 2022
Messages
5,304
Reaction score
8,686
Location
Germany
it's the first time they get more energy out of it than they have to feed it!
Oh yes. I've been following such news for 40 years, and every now and then there's a breakthrough - either in California or at ITER in southern France.

It would be a dream come true. But it will probably take another generation or some more for them to get it right. And then it will probably take a month of maintenance for an hour of operation.

Igniting the sun under human control is definitely not a walk in the park.
 

bemax

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
May 12, 2022
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
4,696
Location
Germany
Not too excited just yet.

Tony Roulstone, a nuclear energy expert at the University of Cambridge, estimated that the energy output of the experiment was only 0.5 per cent of the energy that was needed to fire the lasers in the first place.

My Flux Capacitor Grenadier will have to wait for a bit longer I feel.

Hydrogen one might be a bit closer though.
Actually according to my information it has been the first time that this experiment had an energy output 30 % higher than the input. The problem is that the laser’s energy is not fully brought in the hydrogen core.
Nevertheless it’s a remarkable stepstone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Max

DCPU

Grenadier Owner
Local time
5:46 PM
Joined
Jul 27, 2022
Messages
6,089
Reaction score
13,474
Actually according to my information it has been the first time that this experiment had an energy output 30 % higher than the input. The problem is that the laser’s energy is not fully brought in the hydrogen core.
Nevertheless it’s a remarkable stepstone.
LOL, we have such a range of figures.

It's 53.66% according to the BBC:

"On announcing the breakthrough Dr Marvin Adams, deputy administrator for defense programs at the US National Nuclear Security Administration, said that the laboratory's lasers had input 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, which had then produced 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output."

But maybe they are all correct and talking about slightly different things.
 

bemax

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
May 12, 2022
Messages
2,388
Reaction score
4,696
Location
Germany
LOL, we have such a range of figures.

It's 53.66% according to the BBC:

"On announcing the breakthrough Dr Marvin Adams, deputy administrator for defense programs at the US National Nuclear Security Administration, said that the laboratory's lasers had input 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, which had then produced 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output."

But maybe they are all correct and talking about slightly different things.
One is measuring from upside down and one from downside up. As I remember right the numbers have been quite the same in the article I read.
 

Logsplitter

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
5:46 PM
Joined
Oct 31, 2022
Messages
2,230
Reaction score
8,107
Location
🇬🇧

cheswick

Grenadier Owner
Local time
4:46 AM
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
249
Reaction score
340
Location
Newcastle
I wonder if Ineos' programme will be piggybacking off Iveco, given they seen a little ahead with utilising the Hyundai fuel cell, Carraro axles, body on frame, ladder chassis, etc.

The details are interesting:

"The working eDAILY FCEV prototype is equipped with Hyundai’s 90 kW hydrogen fuel cell system and 140 kW e-motor. Six tanks offer a combined storage capacity of 12 kg of hydrogen.

The GVW 7.2 ton prototype has been tested in Europe, confirming a driving range of 350 km, maximum payload of 3 tons and a refueling time within 15 minutes.

While eDAILY BEV, also launched today at the IAA, is best suited for short journeys, eDAILY FCEV will be an ideal option for longer deliveries where high payload and long range is necessary. "

View attachment 7796239
View attachment 7796238
Crazy if that's the amount of space required to carry 12kg of hydrogen that'll get you 350km of range. I'm sure it'll have its place but can't imagine this being practical relative to a battery unless the rapid refuelling is the driving concern...
 

Norb-TX

Grenadier Owner
Local time
12:46 PM
Joined
Jun 2, 2022
Messages
551
Reaction score
693
Location
Houston
No one mentions child labour, immense use of potable water for Lithium, etc and recycling? (Reminds me on windgenerator rotor blades - no one knows on proper recycling instead they do landfill.
And oil production and refining and transport is so so much better?
 

cheswick

Grenadier Owner
Local time
4:46 AM
Joined
May 29, 2022
Messages
249
Reaction score
340
Location
Newcastle
And oil production and refining and transport is so so much better?
I think the point is that the negative impacts of fossil fuels are well understood and socialised whereas the negative impacts of many “green” technologies and their product lifecycles are greenwashed and obfuscated.
 

klarie

Grenadier Owner
Lifetime Supporter
Local time
6:46 PM
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
1,032
Reaction score
2,233
Location
Rhine - Main Area / Germany
Ah The issues of oil are known. The problem of battery production and anything of "renewable" (in fact I never heard / read of renewable energy my life but only on energy transformation) is sold to us as a clean process and a green and environmentally friendly. - What I wanted to highlight is that the so called clean energy is not so clean. - Indeed oil and natural gas is not green.. what do we know - both is created by natural processes and continuous. The way we process it is something that could be better. If you start to discuss this -it gets political - and compare production cost, CO2 creation and a few more topics .. so an end2end calculation and this is something that people in favour of EV usually do not consider. (and we shall stop subsidising of any kind. True cost only)
 
Local time
1:46 PM
Joined
Jan 20, 2023
Messages
141
Reaction score
316
Location
Belmont, MA
I don't understand why there is so little discussion of hybrid vehicles: a much smaller battery that is recharged by using the brakes as a generator. In my experience around town start/stop-commuting fuel consumption is much worse than steady highway travel. Take the Ford Maverick pickup truck. Owners are reporting ~ 40+ mpg performance around town and ~30 on highway. And there is no range anxiety since you still have the ICE. I read a report on total lifecycle carbon cost of a full electric vs. hybrid, vehicle, battery manufacture and actual road use, and hybrid vehicles were not that much higher total carbon cost, because a full battery manufacturing is so carbon expensive.
But this is a complex question, since the carbon cost statistics depend on how your electricity is generated for both the manufacturing plant and the on-road use.
Purists say we should only talk about full electric vehicles and may base their calculations on using only green/renewable energy sources. But, the reality is we do not have a robust charging infrastructure and will not for many many years. What to do? And there is never going to be a recharging system all across the Australian outback. For industrial (mining, city delivery etc) an Ineos green hydrogen, fuel cell electric may make sense since those uses do not require hundreds of miles between refueling.
SO..... I come down on the side of a hybrid/regenerative braking technology as the best use for a heavy vehicle like the Grenadier.
Your thoughts?
 
Back
Top Bottom