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Honesty from Ineos Automotive please….

JohnHeagney

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Along with the majority on this excellent Forum, I am eagerly awaiting my Grenadier.

I believe that what Ineos Automotive has achieved in a relatively short space of time is truly amazing and the Grenadier is without doubt a brilliant piece of design and engineering that has been brought together by a strong winning team. From a design and engineering perspective Ineos Automotive cannot be faulted but when it comes to PR and communications, they are sadly lacking and clearly do not seem to have experience of dealing directly with consumers.

Being honest with its customers about the reasons for delays would have been a far better policy. In my opinion, people like to hear the truth, even if if isn’t what they want to hear but being kept in the dark is very much disliked.

I have nothing but praise for my dealer who has acted professionally throughout this process and I feel very sorry for them that they at the sharp end when Ineos Automotive are in hiding behind a veil of secrecy. One person at Ineos Grenadier Customer Services, Megan has been excellent at communicating with me but clearly her hands are firmly tied.

Today, a wet and rainy Easter Monday with little else to do, I have had another read through my contract with Ineos Automotive… A contract is intended to lay out and clarify details of a pending transaction - simply it is a promise enforceable by law.

Do Ineos Automotive not understand this?

One interesting point reads:
Direct Payment:
We will send a request for your remaining final balance payment via bank transfer once your Grenadier has arrived in the UK. Payment needs to be cleared in full no later than 2 working days prior to collection.

Really? Mine has been in the Country since March 23rd and no request for payment has been issued…

Another:
4 Delivery of Vehicle
4.1 The Estimated Delivery Date of the Vehicle will be communicated by your chosen Retail Partner once your vehicle has left the factory. As the vehicle is being built to your order, the actual delivery date is dependent on many factors, including the vehicle configuration, manufacturing slot availability and delivery location. The actual delivery date may be at an earlier or later date than the Estimated Delivery Date and INEOS reserves the right to change any of these dates, including as a result of any delays in transit, and INEOS (or the appointed INEOS Retail Partner) will notify the Customer of any such change within a reasonable timeframe.

Really? Mine left the factory long ago and I have not had an Estimated Delivery date as I am told that this is determined by Ineos Automotive.

Please Ineos Automotive, be honest with all of us and give us truth and honesty - and a speedy delivery of our long awaited Grenadiers!
 

trobex

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Some people have actually paid IN FULL, with no clear date when they can actually drive away. Hopefully us Aussies have time to consider payment, whilst vehicle is actually made ready at the yard for driving away!

So far, IA honesty has been pretty much a facade for the actual problems they are obviously experiencing. When they start breaking promises against that which I have in writing: - well you can understand some people's frustration, mine included. Tomorrow, I make contact with Dealer to see if he has ANY other info at their portal, as my IA log in has no updates since the order date back in May 2022. I am actively "still" looking for a make-up car to get me through 2023...
 
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Paul Cooper

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Hampshire
England
Along with the majority on this excellent Forum, I am eagerly awaiting my Grenadier.

I believe that what Ineos Automotive has achieved in a relatively short space of time is truly amazing and the Grenadier is without doubt a brilliant piece of design and engineering that has been brought together by a strong winning team. From a design and engineering perspective Ineos Automotive cannot be faulted but when it comes to PR and communications, they are sadly lacking and clearly do not seem to have experience of dealing directly with consumers.

Being honest with its customers about the reasons for delays would have been a far better policy. In my opinion, people like to hear the truth, even if if isn’t what they want to hear but being kept in the dark is very much disliked.

I have nothing but praise for my dealer who has acted professionally throughout this process and I feel very sorry for them that they at the sharp end when Ineos Automotive are in hiding behind a veil of secrecy. One person at Ineos Grenadier Customer Services, Megan has been excellent at communicating with me but clearly her hands are firmly tied.

Today, a wet and rainy Easter Monday with little else to do, I have had another read through my contract with Ineos Automotive… A contract is intended to lay out and clarify details of a pending transaction - simply it is a promise enforceable by law.

Do Ineos Automotive not understand this?

One interesting point reads:
Direct Payment:
We will send a request for your remaining final balance payment via bank transfer once your Grenadier has arrived in the UK. Payment needs to be cleared in full no later than 2 working days prior to collection.

Really? Mine has been in the Country since March 23rd and no request for payment has been issued…

Another:
4 Delivery of Vehicle
4.1 The Estimated Delivery Date of the Vehicle will be communicated by your chosen Retail Partner once your vehicle has left the factory. As the vehicle is being built to your order, the actual delivery date is dependent on many factors, including the vehicle configuration, manufacturing slot availability and delivery location. The actual delivery date may be at an earlier or later date than the Estimated Delivery Date and INEOS reserves the right to change any of these dates, including as a result of any delays in transit, and INEOS (or the appointed INEOS Retail Partner) will notify the Customer of any such change within a reasonable timeframe.

Really? Mine left the factory long ago and I have not had an Estimated Delivery date as I am told that this is determined by Ineos Automotive.

Please Ineos Automotive, be honest with all of us and give us truth and honesty - and a speedy delivery of our long awaited Grenadiers!
Very well put John and i agree with everything you have highlighted.
I have also spoken to Megan a number of times (together with numerous of others in IA CC) and she is by far the most empathetic.
Honesty is by far the best policy / approach and they would do well to adopt this sooner rather than later.
 

JohnHeagney

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Thanks @Paul Cooper - I do wonder how much Jim Ratcliffe really knows, is he shielded from the reality that we as customers are facing?

The Global Head of PR Communications at Ineos Automotive seems to be a lady called Sarah Pilling - looking at her LinkedIn profile she has an industry background having previously been at Rolls Royce as Global Product PR Manager and before that UK Event Press Officer at Jaguar Land Rover. Why she believes that keeping customers in the dark is good PR defies belief.
 

painter

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Along with the majority on this excellent Forum, I am eagerly awaiting my Grenadier.

I believe that what Ineos Automotive has achieved in a relatively short space of time is truly amazing and the Grenadier is without doubt a brilliant piece of design and engineering that has been brought together by a strong winning team. From a design and engineering perspective Ineos Automotive cannot be faulted but when it comes to PR and communications, they are sadly lacking and clearly do not seem to have experience of dealing directly with consumers.

Being honest with its customers about the reasons for delays would have been a far better policy. In my opinion, people like to hear the truth, even if if isn’t what they want to hear but being kept in the dark is very much disliked.

I have nothing but praise for my dealer who has acted professionally throughout this process and I feel very sorry for them that they at the sharp end when Ineos Automotive are in hiding behind a veil of secrecy. One person at Ineos Grenadier Customer Services, Megan has been excellent at communicating with me but clearly her hands are firmly tied.

Today, a wet and rainy Easter Monday with little else to do, I have had another read through my contract with Ineos Automotive… A contract is intended to lay out and clarify details of a pending transaction - simply it is a promise enforceable by law.

Do Ineos Automotive not understand this?

One interesting point reads:
Direct Payment:
We will send a request for your remaining final balance payment via bank transfer once your Grenadier has arrived in the UK. Payment needs to be cleared in full no later than 2 working days prior to collection.

Really? Mine has been in the Country since March 23rd and no request for payment has been issued…

Another:
4 Delivery of Vehicle
4.1 The Estimated Delivery Date of the Vehicle will be communicated by your chosen Retail Partner once your vehicle has left the factory. As the vehicle is being built to your order, the actual delivery date is dependent on many factors, including the vehicle configuration, manufacturing slot availability and delivery location. The actual delivery date may be at an earlier or later date than the Estimated Delivery Date and INEOS reserves the right to change any of these dates, including as a result of any delays in transit, and INEOS (or the appointed INEOS Retail Partner) will notify the Customer of any such change within a reasonable timeframe.

Really? Mine left the factory long ago and I have not had an Estimated Delivery date as I am told that this is determined by Ineos Automotive.

Please Ineos Automotive, be honest with all of us and give us truth and honesty - and a speedy delivery of our long awaited Grenadiers!
I feel for you in your situation, and the others in similar straights.

One thing I dislike is giving money to people or companies if I feel have treated me poorly (not saying this applies to your case). From what I've read it doesn't bother some, (and they might even treat it as a joke), but I don't know how I would deal with it being in your shoes. It's one of those, "have to be there" things.

Anyway, it seems like IA has an out on deliveries per the contract. Am curious, does the buyer have an out on purchase completion. That is, do you have the right walk away from to order and with what consequence ?

To be clear, I am not suggesting you or anyone else should, just wonder what the contract says.

Where I live I can factory order and vehicle, place a deposit and when the car comes in to the dealer I can decline to complete the purchase. Might get the deposit back, might not.

We can guess that IA or the Agent would be able to sell the car to someone else but depending on the contract I could imagine the person who originally ordered wanting to fulfill their contractual obligations and not risk possible risk legal action (if that were a possibility).

And some individuals may have unanticipated changes in their circumstances by the time the car shows up.

So can you guys ever bail ??
 

mgohillbilly

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Thanks @Paul Cooper - I do wonder how much Jim Ratcliffe really knows, is he shielded from the reality that we as customers are facing?

The Global Head of PR Communications at Ineos Automotive seems to be a lady called Sarah Pilling - looking at her LinkedIn profile she has an industry background having previously been at Rolls Royce as Global Product PR Manager and before that UK Event Press Officer at Jaguar Land Rover. Why she believes that keeping customers in the dark is good PR defies belief.
You can bet the farm that he knows everything that's going on and that it's at his direction.
 

Cjeffery

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It’s a joke really, but just not a very funny one. All of us who put our money where our mouths were (sept 2021) are being treated so badly…my grenadier arrived with the dealer on feb 2nd…I have seen it, sat in it and been bullshitted by IA ever since with reasons why I can’t have it…this after IA directed the dealer to ring me and tell me I was getting the first delivery in the UK. I won’t be now as IA have prioritised the delivery of a national newspaper editors order (I kid you not) whilst they (when they occasionally communicate) recycle the same lame excuses for the delays - I have lost my brand loyalty before I have taken delivery. Good luck everyone but think very carefully before confirming your orders and putting yourselves through all of this. I am pretty sure there is still something fundamentally wrong with the vehicle yet to be confirmed
 

Tom D

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This next week is a big one for IA. If we don’t see a huge wave of deliveries from the dealership ‘stock’ and a huge wave of contracts going out for the soon to be built vehicles then we know something is seriously wrong. If I haven’t heard anything by the end of the week it will be time for a complaint. I have been told feb build, then march build, then nothing. Looking around on here it seems everyone is in the same boat. I don’t know what is going on but something needs to happen soon. Or just be honest and tell me it’s massively delayed. The teasing with false promises is beyond a joke.
 

painter

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All of us who put our money where our mouths were (sept 2021) are being treated so badly…my grenadier arrived with the dealer on feb 2nd…I have seen it, sat in it and been bullshitted by IA ever since with reasons why I can’t have it…this after IA directed the dealer to ring me and tell me I was getting the first delivery in the UK. I won’t be now as IA have prioritised the delivery of a national newspaper editors order (I kid you not) whilst they (when they occasionally communicate) recycle the same lame excuses for the delays
Wow, "thanks for your early support !"

You can bet the farm that he knows everything that's going on and that it's at his direction.
IDK but brings to mind ..."We wouldn't last a week by telling the truth."

View: https://youtu.be/drlPbIWAz-E
 

trobex

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Thanks @Paul Cooper - I do wonder how much Jim Ratcliffe really knows, is he shielded from the reality that we as customers are facing?

The Global Head of PR Communications at Ineos Automotive seems to be a lady called Sarah Pilling - looking at her LinkedIn profile she has an industry background having previously been at Rolls Royce as Global Product PR Manager and before that UK Event Press Officer at Jaguar Land Rover. Why she believes that keeping customers in the dark is good PR defies belief.
Worked for JLR - IA should have known better, or that was the plan all along. Head in the sand and hope they go away!
 

Shopkeep

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You can bet the farm that he knows everything that's going on and that it's at his direction.
Really? Big Jim is across every single decision in every single entity he has an interest in and is personally making all those decisions? Every Ineos division, every sporting club? He must be a very busy boy.
 

trobex

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Really? Big Jim is across every single decision in every single entity he has an interest in and is personally making all those decisions? Every Ineos division, every sporting club? He must be a very busy boy.
No, but he would be intimately aware that the IA Group is 4-6 months behind promised deliveries or more, and with BILLIONS invested he would have his finger on the pulse. Im my view, it would be naive to think otherwise.
 

Shopkeep

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No, but he would be intimately aware that the IA Group is 4-6 months behind promised deliveries or more, and with BILLIONS invested he would have his finger on the pulse. Im my view, it would be naive to think otherwise.
In my experience what separates highly successful people like Jim from others is their ability to step back and empower highly talented key people to make decisions and to back them when they make them. You might not like the decisions made by those people but naivety is believing Jim makes them all personally.
 

MileHigh

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In my experience what separates highly successful people like Jim from others is their ability to step back and empower highly talented key people to make decisions and to back them when they make them. You might not like the decisions made by those people but naivety is believing Jim makes them all personally.
And then fire them when they jack things up…

I’ve got my in person drive in a couple of weeks. I know it is in the US, but they had better have a coherent and plausible story with a path forward or it is going to get ugly. I’ve been thrown out of better places than a dirt bike park.
 

Annee

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I have also spoken to Meghan at customer service and she has rang me today, she cannot answer anything but is empathetic, I have told my dealer that come the 14th April I will cancel if I haven't my invoice, my vehicle is sitting at the dealers, it means nothing to Ineos if I cancel as there are plenty who would step into my shoes, I actually don't care about it anymore, I have never felt so negatively about something I was so excited for, I have told Meghan not to call me anymore, if my other half wants to carry on waiting then he can take the reins..I'll not bother to stress or get frustrated anymore, there are more important things in life for me.
 

trobex

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In my experience what separates highly successful people like Jim from others is their ability to step back and empower highly talented key people to make decisions and to back them when they make them. You might not like the decisions made by those people but naivety is believing Jim makes them all personally.
Never said he was personally making decisions, but he will be driving people at the ground level of management to do their job and respond and action accordingly. If not, then maybe thats why they are so bad at this role out... My experience only points to successful people being innately aware of the entirety of their business and manage the people properly do their jobs, and track progress accordingly. Jobs, Musk, Gates come to mind. Broke companies are the ones where upper/middle management are left to their own devices, and owners/boards are unaware things are going to hell...
 

Tazzieman

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Broke companies are the ones where upper/middle management are left to their own devices, and owners/boards are unaware things are going to hell...
You give people shares in the business and incentivise them.
All startups are subject to risk. I haven't previously invested in such a company. But taking calculated risks is invigorating , like climbing with a rope :)
IA have had to leap many hurdles in their steeplechase of production. Steeplechases are brutal events.
I'm just waiting for mine to clear the last water jump and it'll be on the home straight.
 

trobex

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You give people shares in the business and incentivise them.
All startups are subject to risk. I haven't previously invested in such a company. But taking calculated risks is invigorating , like climbing with a rope :)
IA have had to leap many hurdles in their steeplechase of production. Steeplechases are brutal events.
I'm just waiting for mine to clear the last water jump and it'll be on the home straight.
Spreading the love is the only way businesses become good, good also does not mean making ONLY money. A business where you employees respect your own drive, ability and target hitting is a good one to work for. Couple that with honestly and integrity - great work space.

I am a believer that you put your hand up and admit it when you make a mistake. I made a few for the businesses that I worked for over the years (all salvageable of course!), but I could have just hidden them in the myriad of finances, and none be the wiser. Instead, I took the hard way home! Falling on your sword sometimes shows the people around you just how much integrity you have. It is how you respond, action a new plan and take responsibility for the outcomes. Since COVID though I find most persons around me in the 'workspace' just don't give a flying - hence why I now work for myself which allows me to still demand common ground, quality work outcomes and to ultimately hold people responsible for their efforts (good and bad!). For that, you weed out the people that do not care and instead gain people who are happy to work for you any day of the week.
 

Tazzieman

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Spreading the love is the only way businesses become good, good also does not mean making ONLY money. A business where you employees respect your own drive, ability and target hitting is a good one to work for. Couple that with honestly and integrity - great work space.

I am a believer that you put your hand up and admit it when you make a mistake. I made a few for the businesses that I worked for over the years (all salvageable of course!), but I could have just hidden them in the myriad of finances, and none be the wiser. Instead, I took the hard way home! Falling on your sword sometimes shows the people around you just how much integrity you have. It is how you respond, action a new plan and take responsibility for the outcomes. Since COVID though I find most persons around me in the 'workspace' just don't give a flying - hence why I now work for myself which allows me to still demand common ground, quality work outcomes and to ultimately hold people responsible for their efforts (good and bad!). For that, you weed out the people that do not care and instead gain people who are happy to work for you any day of the week.
Fair enough!
I work in healthcare , we got through covid times , and the soldiers that I work with are still soldiering on despite never ending difficult times.
When I graduated in 1985 I commenced the hard way home towards retirement. After 36 years I'm rounding the bend, though cannot yet see the finish line.
I just don't have the giving up gene.
 

MarkH

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You can be sure there would've been regular round tables on whether to inform deposit holders about delays, especially early adopters. But, it seems they decided the least collateral damage long term would be radio silence, in the hope the 'worth the wait' play would keep the horde at bay. I'd say the hole got to deep and they just kept running with it.
Sir Jim needs to throw in a free Grenadier windscreen shade on delivery to say, 'Thanks for waiting!'.
Should be plenty of time to organise it. ;) ;)
sunshade.jpg
 
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