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Grenadier Experience Roadshow in Germany

rovie

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Well maybe they teach things differently nowadays, but I was always taught to engage the centre diff lock as soon as you went off road.

It seems odd to demonstrate a vehicle with four wheel drive without actually putting it into four wheel drive...

Hi DCPU, this is a very good video that clearly explains the 4-wheel drive.
It gets interesting when you have to drive through a wet meadow with 3.5 tonnes on the hook. Then the 4-wheel drive helps to quickly dig in up to the ladder-frame. Then the only thing that helps is unloading the cattle, unhitching the trailer and digging free with the shovel.
 

To

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Well maybe they teach things differently nowadays, but I was always taught to engage the centre diff lock as soon as you went off road.

It seems odd to demonstrate a vehicle with four wheel drive without actually putting it into four wheel drive...

The Grenadier is a permanent 4-wheel-drive. The center diff lock an the diff locks front and rear are additional auxiliary to bring the car further forward when only 4-wheel-drive is not enough. When a car come up the hill without those auxiliary than the car is good. To proof the off-road ability of a car, drive him only with permanent 4-wheel. More than this, driving off-road with a permanent center diff lock in use, it is not good for the longevity. Only use this, when the terrain requires this. Diffs are important, when axels have much acceleration. In real heavy terrain, maybe it is important to use the central diff lock from the beginning. But not on the easy terrain uses for the Grenadier Road Show.
 

DCPU

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I'm sorry but you clearly do not understand the term "permanent 4-wheel-drive" when the vehicle is fitted with a locking centre differential.

A locked centre differential with only give drive to each axle, and may therefore end up being no wheel drive if you are cross-axled.

If you do not lock the centre differential then under low traction conditions, all drive can be lost through a single wheel - you will get no further than a similar 2 wheel drive vehicle.

I thought the video above was perhaps far more eloquent...
 
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Well maybe they teach things differently nowadays, but I was always taught to engage the centre diff lock as soon as you went off road.

It seems odd to demonstrate a vehicle with four wheel drive without actually putting it into four wheel drive...

Its always in four wheel drive just without the centre Dif locked like early range rovers or landcover 110s there iii. always drive to all of the wheels all the time you just select whether you lock the centre or iii your lucky front and rear. as well.
I must admit that on the test drive it drove through earthing easily
 

DCPU

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I may not be picking my words carefully enough for this thread, which is why I shorthanded it with the video.

Watch what happens in the video when just a single wheel is raised in the air; if your statement that there is "always drive to all of the wheels all of the time" is correct, then why does the vehicle cease to move forward?
 

DCPU

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More than this, driving off-road with a permanent center diff lock in use, it is not good for the longevity.
It's a lot better than the alternative:

"The centre diff is there to allow the props to turn at different speeds when cornering to stop drivetrain wind up. The speed difference is quite small and the centre diff gears are only designed to cope with these low speeds.

If you are Off Road on snow or ice and you get wheelspin from one front wheel, what will happen is the rear prop will not be moving, the front will thus be going double speed, this means the small centre diff gears will be spinning like fury and after a matter of only a few seconds the planet gears will friction weld to the cross pins and the gears will fail etc. Of course in this situation the centre diff should be locked to avoid failure."

From a man who knows a thing or two about these things.

https://ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/product/ashcroft-lt230-atb-diff/

It's a circular argument in that if locking the centre differential causes transmission wind up, then you must by definition be on a high traction surface (or a wheel would loose traction to unwind the transmission); equally if you are driving about without having the need for locking the centre differential then you are not loosing traction at any single wheel and thus not doing anything a 4x2 couldn't do.
 

DaveB

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I may not be picking my words carefully enough for this thread, which is why I shorthanded it with the video.

Watch what happens in the video when just a single wheel is raised in the air; if your statement that there is "always drive to all of the wheels all of the time" is correct, then why does the vehicle cease to move forward?
You are correct however this video shows the worst case scenario.
When driving on dirt roads or simple off roading it is very rare that one wheel would completely leave the ground for a continuous period of time.
So in a permanent 4wd like the Grenadier all 4 wheels are being driven, but as two independent pairs of wheels.
So you still have much better traction than 2 WD
Locking the centre diff means they are now being driven as two pairs of wheels joined together.
If one wheel from each axle was up in the air you would have exactly the same situation as shown in this video, two wheels spinning freely and no forward travel.
The next step would be to lock the rear diff.
That would give you traction on the rear wheel on the ground only, but would hopefully be enough to get you moving again.
Last option is to lock the front diff, that would add traction to the front wheel that is on the ground and provide a second wheel with drive.
Locking the front diff makes steering more difficult that is why it is the last resort and why many 4wds only have a rear locker.
 
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To

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I'm sorry but you clearly do not understand the term "permanent 4-wheel-drive" when the vehicle is fitted with a locking centre differential.

A locked centre differential with only give drive to each axle, and may therefore end up being no wheel drive if you are cross-axled.

If you do not lock the centre differential then under low traction conditions, all drive can be lost through a single wheel - you will get no further than a similar 2 wheel drive vehicle.

I thought the video above was perhaps far more eloquent...
Hey man,
a 4-wheel-drive is a 4-wheel-drive also without center diff lock. I do not telling more. All your other statements are right. But you don't understand what i mean. Read my threat again. Perhaps you can understand then. I want to highlight the capability of the Grenadier doing the course without any lockers.
 
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The mail:
Would you like to be one of the first to drive the INEOS Grenadier yourself? We offer you this opportunity during the INEOS Grenadier Experience Roadshow, which will take place from 20 September to 18 October 2022 throughout Germany.
Before you get your very own Grenadier, it's time to get behind the wheel of our INEOS Grenadier pre-production model to explore the rugged all-terrain vehicle from all angles and see first-hand how it behaves on different terrains. Our team will also be there to answer all your questions.
The INEOS Grenadier Experience Roadshow takes place in cooperation with our INEOS sales partners at 15 locations throughout Germany. We would love for you to attend one of the following events:
INEOS Grenadier Experience - Route Süd:

Region Stuttgart / Autohaus Weippert GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
20. - 22.09.2022
Event Location: RMC Reutlingen Vereinsheim, Im Gewann Weiher 1, 72762 Reutlingen
Kontakt: Weippert Team
E-Mail: roadshow.grenadier@autohaus-weippert.de

Region Welzheim / LeTech GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
23.- 24.09.2022
Event Location: LeTech GmbH & Co. KG, Reizenwiesen 19, 73642 Welzheim
Kontakt: Erhard Wade
E-Mail: e.wade@lennartz-technik.de
Telefon: +49 170 8033047

Region Bodensee / Autohaus Riess GmbH
Datum:
26. - 28.09.2022
Event Location: Autohaus Riess GmbH, Beim Rothen-Kreuz 2, 88138 Weißensberg
Kontakt: Monika Jensch
E-Mail: monika.jensch@riess-gruppe.de
Telefon: +49 751 801-501

Region Nürnberg / Autohaus Road Star GmbH
Datum:
04. - 05.10.2022
Event Location: tbd.
Kontakt: Stephen Schultheiss
E-Mail: stephen.schultheiss@roadstar.de
Telefon: +49 911 307339 73

Region München / Schmidt Premium Cars GmbH
Datum:
07. - 09.10.2022
Event Location: tbd.
Kontakt: Leon Blaufuss und Kilian Breinlinger
E-Mail: info.offroad@schmidtpremiumcars.de
Telefon: +49 8974418 15

Region Frankfurt / Krah + Enders GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
11. - 13.10.2022
Event Location: tbd.
Kontakt: Ronny Nicolas
E-Mail: Ronny.Nicolas@bmw-krah-enders.de

Region Saarland & Rhein-Neckar / Scherer Gruppe
Zeitraum:
14. - 18.10.2022 tbd.
Event Location: tbd.
Kontakt: Scherer Team
E-Mail: grenadier@scherer-gruppe.de
Telefon: +49 151 689 65287

INEOS Grenadier Experience - Route Nord:

Region Hamburg / Krüll Premium Cars GmbH
Datum:
20. - 22.09.2022
Event Location: Gut Basthorst, Auf dem Gut 3, 21493 Basthorst
Kontakt: Bryan Santiago
E-Mail: offroad-sales@kruell.com
Telefon: +49 176 8492 9677

Region Einbeck / Autohaus Becker-Tiemann Leinetal GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
23. - 24.09.2022
Event Location: Mammutpark Stadtoldendorf, Linnenkämper Str. 41, 37627 Stadtoldendorf
JETZT REGISTRIEREN >
Kontakt: Steve Wery
E-Mail: offroad@becker-tiemann.de
Telefon: +49 5551 98 10 10

Region Bremen / Woltmann GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
26. - 27.09.2022
Event Location: Hoope Park, Wulsbütteler Str. 2, 22609 Wulsbüttel
JETZT REGISTRIEREN >
Kontakt: Alina Krebs
E-Mail: ineos@woltmann-gruppe.de

Region Berlin / Vertriebspartner coming soon
Datum:
29.09. - 30.09.2022
Event Location: tbd
Kontakt: INEOS Grenadier Team
E-Mail: automotive.eventseurope@ineos.com

Region Leipzig / Stern Auto GmbH Center Leipzig
Datum:
04. - 06.10.2022
Event Location: Camp David Sport Resort by ALL-on-SEA, SCHLADITZER BUCHT – BEACHCLUB, Haynaer Straße, 04519 Rackwitz
Kontakt: Sandra Rehmet
E-Mail: sandra.rehmet@sternauto.de
Telefon: +49 173 6782540

Region Hannover / Autohaus Becker-Tiemann Leinetal GmbH & Co. KG
Datum:
08. – 09.10.2022
Event Location: Bilster Berg Drive Resort GmbH & Co. KG, Bilster Berg 1, 33014 Bad Driburg
JETZT REGISTRIEREN >
Kontakt: Steve Wery
E-Mail: offroad@becker-tiemann.de
Telefon: +49 5551 98 10 10

Region Ruhrgebiet / Fahrzeug-Werke LUEG AG
Datum:
11. - 13.10.2022
Event Location: Motor Sport Club Werl e.V., Neheimerstr. 65, 59457 Werl
JETZT REGISTRIEREN >
Kontakt: Vanessa Gorks
E-Mail: vanessa.gorks@lueg.de
Telefon: +49 171 1428 185

Region Köln / Matzker KFZ-Technik GmbH
Datum:
14. - 16.10.2022
Event Location: tbd.
Kontakt: Bernhard Körner
E-Mail: koerner@matzker.de
Telefon: +49 221 5463236

Your Grenadier experience will last around 15-20 minutes and you will be accompanied by a professional driver.
To register, simply select an event near you and contact the INEOS distributor via email or phone.
Alternatively, you can find more information on our website.
Hi we experienced 20 min driving fortunately twice, which was a pleasure in serval reasons. We`re totaly convinced to hold on to our order. there will be two changes in my order, namely no safari windows, but the handlebars will be covered with saddle leather. Now we can't wait to call our Grandier our own.
 

klarie

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The Krah & Enders event will probably not let us drive on the road but just off road.

I'm not sure about that, but here's where it takes place:

View attachment 7793581
Indeed.. was there yesterday and I did test drive off road - no on road but also gravel near near on road condition.
Tried Steep ankle up and down, wet grass, mud, full circle, steep gravel, semi road conditions. on exactly this location MSC aufenau.

When imagination meets reality. - there was on show car aside. where people could look at before and after.
I had my spouse with me. - So shorter people need an additional step. This means side step / protectors ordered is must option.
Under the bonnet - there is plenty of space. - so maintenance and mechanics are relatively easy accessed. If I look at my LR discovery sport - in comparison its packed - any space is used.
Battery, Fuses and anything electric stuff is under rear bench. Easy accessible. So once again - maintenance is simple.
Cockpit easy, Upper panel - you need to familiarize yourself with it. Off Road you will not have to chance to look at it. This means . you need to know where what switch is - w/o looking at it. Most off the upper ones you won't need while in motion.
Headspace Plenty.
Safari Windows - and Insulation to roof this is almost 5 cm - so the cover inside to metal outside there is enormous insulation and protection.
Doors are like Safe - doors . .. massive.
Classic Key start. No remote or keyless - Start Push Button.
Spacy in Front Sufficent Space in Doors.
Flat Boot.
The Fieldmaster edition with convenient features as USB in the middle and access to rear passengers.
The more important capabilities such as Parking support, rear camera are availbale ..

So a few things I am disappointed on.
If the Front Seats are pushed back fully. - no adult can sit there. there is perhaps on inch left. between Backrest and Bench.
Childrens Seats cannot be fixed. (This is not applicable for me, my kids are all grown up. - but this is also not a vehicle to get kids to school or kindergarten)
However when I go hunting I might have a few people in thick outdoor garment on board. - Rear pax will be disappointed also in Station Wagon if large / long legged people are in driver or co drivers seat.
Luggage compartment. - Compared to vehicle dimensions rather small. (its about size length / width of a Jeep Wrangler or MB GLK, perhaps a bit more size as a MB GLC and a bit smaller in size compared to LR Discovery sport. A normal discovery of current production is way larger.
However it is possible to "stack" . the hight / vertical size and loading is quite okay. A luggage Net is required if stacked high.
Some wish . the Safari Windows might need blinds depending on position of sun even if quite dark tinted, The display however is very good readable even if Sun is low and from a 7 or 8 hour direction.


Driving
Start, Seat position Space - fine . no problems with elbows
Doors have old school push buttons to open.. fine with me.
Extremely quiet inside. even if I have a go with some power on low gear in Mud or climb.
Very good suspension, Circling, sufficent information on steering wheels, undergroud conditions without being uncomfortable.
Nothing to complain during offroad driving, Gravel and (short) road. Brakes, Acceleration all fine.


That is my impression of reality. - Do the disappointing topics prevent me from buying - unlikely. The seats were pushed way back they were not in a position I would use it. The problem should be considered by people who are very tall, long legs, or may have grown a significant belly and will carry regular adults in 2nd row.
The luggage Space is sufficient for me. This means for me its okay.
So this is what we think about it.
 

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DCPU

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Good stuff. 👍

Not sure if the vehicle you looked at just didn't have them, but Ineos have confirmed ISOFIX child seating connections on the two outer rear seats. You can see the front and rear tether points in these photos:

first-contact-we-got-hands-on-with-the-ineos-grenadier-p1-and-p2_112.jpg
FB_IMG_1662703340621.jpg

Was there any story behind why the engine cover was off?
 

klarie

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@DCPU Didn't notice the isofix attachments in the one . there were on one side the bench folded away to see the battery and fuses. Also there were different productions - some where manufactured at Magna, some already in Hambach facility.
The vehicles were close but not final to production. The one I drove had no Safari Windows either and some different electronics on display. So some tiny difference will be there still between this vehicle and finally shipped. - However what I experienced looks very promising.

Compared to the typical camouflaged vehicles of competition. - This is way better. Invoke potential customers and listen. So Ineos /magna may improve and the customers - know what they will get for their money.

The bonnet was open intentionally in that demonstration vehicle - to allow customers to see whats built in there. So of course I go and have a look inside. - I grew up in a car shop - my dad owned a garage, got a "Master" in car mechanics. That vehicle was not intended to drive around with but to allow waiting guests to get an impression. That is where I notices the positive and sadly critical topics. The ISOfix stuff does not apply to me anyway. If I ever get grandchildren at all. Important for me is - Get a luggage net, a gunlocker and privacy glassing.
 
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Christoph

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Also had my test drive today - great car!

I was a bit surprised about this - not sure whether the cable tubes would be visible from outside in final vehicles:

Grenadier_door.jpeg
 

klarie

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@Christoph where did you do your test drive?
The color of the vehicle reminds me to the one in Aufenau. From what I took most pictures.
To bad I didn't notice this flaw, I was distracted by other topics. To me it is an assembly fault and not to be intendend this way. Did you tell the staff?
 

Christoph

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@Christoph where did you do your test drive?
The color of the vehicle reminds me to the one in Aufenau. From what I took most pictures.
To bad I didn't notice this flaw, I was distracted by other topics. To me it is an assembly fault and not to be intendend this way. Did you tell the staff?

Yes, Aufenau, from Krah + Enders. This was a demo car standing around, not used for driving.
 

klarie

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Yes.. The pictures I took yesterday evening were from exactly this vehicle too. Sadly I didn't notice this flaw if it was there yesterday at 1700hrs, today I informed the guys from Krah & Enders on that topic - lets see how they comment on this cable tunnel issue. This is indeed worrying me a bit. It could be an issue of failure, provoke vandalism and also provoke some people to make jokes on. Ineos builds cars with cable hanging around.. shall I clip it off? .. This need to be resolved.
 
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DCPU

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Also had my test drive today - great car!

I was a bit surprised about this - not sure whether the cable tubes would be visible from outside in final vehicles:

View attachment 7794639
If you look at how that lies when the door is open, there doesn't seen to be much you can do with it:

FB_IMG_1662703330340.jpg

It's the same for the other door:

FB_IMG_1661600847574.jpg
 

Christoph

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DCPU

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It would need to be on a retracting cord ~ a bit like a ski lift pass.
 
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