Fusilier On Hold???

[LeeroyJ]

In some cases probably yes. In this case a main dealer service is £10 cheaper for that EV and there are no tolls/parking/city charges cheaper for EVs within 100 miles.

Hmm what are they servicing on an EV that ends up cumulatively costing only £10 less than a comparable ICE? No oil change, no transmission maintenance, so just consumables like filters (no engine air or oil filter on an EV), brakes (brakes last much longer on most EV's due to regenerative braking), wiper blades, cabin air filter, rotate and balance the tires?

The first EV I purchased was a BMW I-4, the dealer tried to sell me the extended maintenance package which was not discounted from the ICE version of the BMW 4 series, he couldn't justify why.

The other point beyond maintenance is just repairs. 10 years the EV battery will have been off warranty for two years (typically 8 years 100,000 miles). The engine and transmission on the ICE will likely have been out of warranty for a long time (typically 5 years 60,000 miles).

 

[landmannnn]

Hmm what are they servicing on an EV that ends up cumulatively costing only £10 less than a comparable ICE? No oil change, no transmission maintenance, so just consumables like filters (no engine air or oil filter on an EV), brakes (brakes last much longer on most EV's due to regenerative braking), wiper blades, cabin air filter, rotate and balance the tires?

The first EV I purchased was a BMW I-4, the dealer tried to sell me the extended maintenance package which was not discounted from the ICE version of the BMW 4 series, he couldn't justify why.

The other point beyond maintenance is just repairs. 10 years the EV battery will have been off warranty for two years (typically 8 years 100,000 miles). The engine and transmission on the ICE will likely have been out of warranty for a long time (typically 5 years 60,000 miles).

No idea. Although the servicing on that that car is about £200. Not much more than the cost to replace a cabin filter on an IG from what people have posted on this forum.

The point I was trying to make is that if you are driving say 5,000 miles per year, choosing an EV is not necessarily a financial benefit

 

[CrazyOldMan]

No idea. Although the servicing on that that car is about £200. Not much more than the cost to replace a cabin filter on an IG from what people have posted on this forum.

The point I was trying to make is that if you are driving say 5,000 miles per year, choosing an EV is not necessarily a financial benefit

Personally I hate them, but to @landmannnn’s point, there is a sweet spot. Not long range remote, not high-mileage-on-the-clock (eg taxi), not super low mileage where you can’t recoup on parts and repairs - but <200m daily driver in town and charging in your garage at night? Yes. That’s why I thought the Fusilier would have been cool for my wife. And with the range extender, it would even have been good for regional trips. I would still buy one, if IA changed their minds.

 

[LabRat]

The koolaid is worth drinking.

The average American drives less than 40 miles per day. If you can charge at home (i.e. don't live in an apartment or in the city where you don't have a garage) then that average person will rarely need to use a charger outside the home.

My wife has an EV and I don't remember the exact maximum range it gets but it's over 400 miles, which is a lot more than my Grenadier gets (before I added the extended tank). We don't normally take the EV on road trips, because when we are driving long distance it's typically to do fun things with the Grenadier. But when we do, we have more than enough range to drive for three hours at which point we are bladder limited and need to stop anyway. Assuming we stop at a location with a fast charger, in the amount of time it takes us to use the restroom and get a coffee (15-20min) the EV will have charged more than enough to drive another three hours. That charging is significantly less expensive than the equivalent premium fuel for the Grenadier.

Add to that when we charge the EV at home, it's usually during the day where our solar panels are covering the charge.

As for fast charging not being readily available, it's a chicken-and-the-egg problem, but it is improving and on major interstates there are very few stretches left where fast charging is not easily available.

Don't get me wrong, taking an electric SUV on a week-long overlanding trip in the boonies would be impractical at this point. But, the day is coming. The new Scout is offering a "range extender" option (basically an onboard generator that can charge the battery even while driving). With that you could take jerry cans and get serious range. Mechanical problems overlanding in an electric EV would likely be a lot less.

The fact that in the US we've turned electric cars into a political issue is absurd. All we are doing is allowing the Chinese to steal market-share while their electric car industry is being heavily subsidized by their government. In thirty years, when 99% of vehicles on the road are Chinese electric cars, we will look back and shake our heads at how politicization of electric vehicles allowed the Chinese to run-away with MarketShare uncontested. Anti-EV sentiment in the US is like the horse and buggy owners shaking their fists at the Ford Model T.

It became a political issue when various levels of government began actively trying to kill the ICE and diesel engines through regulations and coercion, ignoring the market demands for EVs. Basically using their power to force as many into them as possible as quickly as possible.

 

[LeeroyJ]

It became a political issue when various levels of government began actively trying to kill the ICE and diesel engines through regulations and coercion, ignoring the market demands for EVs. Basically using their power to force as many into them as possible as quickly as possible.

That doesn't mean making it a political issue is smart. We are squandering our competitive advantage. The domestic EV market is almost entirely made in the USA. We are cutting domestic EV producers' throats while the Chinese are babying and bolstering their EV industry. Other markets around the world are moving to Chinese vehicles because of those Chinese subsidies. And those other markets don't buy into the political spin in the US that we can ignore climate change, so ICE's days are limited globally and EV's are the future, whether we as auto enthusiast want to acknowledge that fact or not.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

It became a political issue when various levels of government began actively trying to kill the ICE and diesel engines through regulations and coercion, ignoring the market demands for EVs. Basically using their power to force as many into them as possible as quickly as possible.

Like I said - hate the EV’s and even hybrids with that stupid quiet whine. But if we fully priced out oil in the US (taking away foreign policy and military intervention to protect oil supply, “friendly” oil-producing oligarchs, tax subsidies and public land access, etc etc) - then we could say with a straight face that this was really a matter of free market demand. Just like “invisible tariffs” impeding free and competitive trade, government intervention and tax policy are an interference to free market competition in energy and automotive. The House of Saud has its hands deep in the pockets of the American taxpayer.

 

[LabRat]

Like I said - hate the EV’s and even hybrids with that stupid quiet whine. But if we fully priced out oil in the US (taking away foreign policy and military intervention to protect oil supply, “friendly” oil-producing oligarchs, tax subsidies and public land access, etc etc) - then we could say with a straight face that this was really a matter of free market demand. Just like “invisible tariffs” impeding free and competitive trade, government intervention and tax policy are an interference to free market competition in oil and automotive. The House of Saud has its hands deep in the pockets of the American taxpayer.

Oh, I never said there was a free market, I wish there was, but that doesn't mean it's OK to eliminate ICE and mandate EVs through regulation is the answer. It's pretty clear the market, at least the US market doesn't want EVs to any great degree.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Well at least I don’t - but I think I would buy the Fusilier just for the kicks ;o)

 

[LabRat]

Well at least I don’t - but I think I would buy the Fusilier just for the kicks ;o)

I felt that way about the Cybertruck. LOL

 

[AngusMacG]

The cost of EV’s is very understated just about everywhere…Yes it does make sense to install your own charger at home…The questions is what is that cost? There is no average cost as it depends on labor and any retrofitting in your home (i.e. if your home runs on 100A service then you will need an upgrade). What level charger are you going to install? (Level 1 can run up to $2500 or as low as under $1k; which is just for the unit). How much is your electricity costs? Are your electricity costs stable? What is the source of your electricity? What are teh current political climate in your area for electricity (Banning fossil fuels? Rely on renewables?) What happens if your entire neighborhood starts to do the same? Can the grid handle it? There are places in CA that wouldn’t allow you to charge you vehicle between certain hours. DO you have a SMART meter installed? If so the power company can shut you off as they can tell what devices you have plugged in (Appliances, vehicles, A/C, heat, etc.)

One must also consider the time it takes to recharge versus filling up a tank. Typically you can fill up a tank in less than 5 minutes (assuming less than 20 gallon’s to be conservative) as opposed to 45 minutes to go from ~15% to above 90% on an EV at a Tesla charger (This was my experience). That 40 minutes has a cost (assuming $40/hour that equates to a bit over $26.50; a gas fillup would be less than $3.50) and that should be added to the cost of the electricity.

Let’s now talk about end of life…how long will the batteries last? What will your range be in 3 years, 5 years? What is the resale of those vehicles at that point? It is cheaper to replace an ICE than a rack of batteries in an EV. It is also not possible to purchase remanufactured or used batteries to lessen the cost of repairs.

EVs are perfect for commuting where your daily mileage is low and you have the ability to charge either at home or there are enough charging stations close to you. Otherwise an EV doesn’t make sense for most American purposes unless they also have an ICE vehicle.

 

[Tazzieman]

Let’s now talk about end of life…how long will the batteries last? What will your range be in 3 years, 5 years? What is the resale of those vehicles at that point? It is cheaper to replace an ICE than a rack of batteries in an EV. It is also not possible to purchase remanufactured or used batteries to lessen the cost of repairs.

Old top of the range Tesla, <5000 quid now , 76% battery left after 250000 miles or so. Bit of a bargain!

View: https://youtu.be/t1aI7EfSnmE?feature=shared

 

[Dokatd]

Hmmm, I have a level 2 charger for my Rivian. Installed it myself for the grand cost of my time. Charger cost $700 with my first Rivian. It has been used on two Rivians now. Trucks charging in the garage as I type. Most road trips we have done we do short burst charging. We never try to charge over 80% on the road unless we have a very long charging desert ahead. Fastest charging takes place between 20% and up to 80% at most.

Smart meters cannot detect what device is consuming power. You have to have a smart panel to do that. Those are pretty rare these days but becoming more popular.

I gather your experience wasn't the best, but my wife loves her Rivian and the massively reduced maintenance and cost to operate makes her exceptionally happy which is more than enough to justify it for me. But luckily I reap the rewards directly too since cost to operate is so much lower to be sure. We have made several long trips with our Rivian with the longest being a 13hr drive. Most are around 6-8hrs. And I frankly enjoy the reduced rush to get back on the road at gas stations. I find I'm vastly more relaxed and enjoy the trip more than when I drive my ICE trucks. My pocket book appreciates it too.