Front Drive Shaft Update

[Tom D]

When mine failed (suspected boot tear) the slip joint was fine.

I think there's two issues, those that fail at the boot and those that pull the shaft out of the joint.

 

[Dokatd]

I think there's two issues, those that fail at the boot and those that pull the shaft out of the joint.

And mine has done both. My slip joint is fine.

 

[DaneJa]

High pinion 60 with CV half shafts would be perfect. That said I would strongly consider some C303 portals.

But I wouldn't go portals if I was planning on seriously high mileage at higher speeds.

In the YT video and the comments below it the dude from 74Weld seemed pretty convinced 60s wouldn't fit, so he was talking about hybrid 44s with thicker tube walls and 60 outers from Curie. My understanding is they do this with Jeeps, so it could just be that he's looking capitalize on that development.

 

[ECrider]

I think there's two issues, those that fail at the boot and those that pull the shaft out of the joint.

I am still not certain which came first, chicken and egg type problem for me at the moment.

The boot had a snick in it but whether that occurred because of circlip fail or other.....not convinced.

 

[Dokatd]

In the YT video and the comments below it the dude from 74Weld seemed pretty convinced 60s wouldn't fit, so he was talking about hybrid 44s with thicker tube walls and 60 outers from Curie. My understanding is they do this with Jeeps, so it could just be that he's looking capitalize on that development.

I mean, Rockwells would fit. It's just a matter of what you are building for.

 

[Robt]

Interesting fix for the problem

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8sqKSf-kMw

 

[Happyoldgit]

I have had a bit of email correspondence with the chap from North West Propshafts who said he is expecting their customer with the lifted Grenadier to return and report back this week. He also said it would be helpful to have a look at a standard spec, non lifted vehicle but the problem is that he feels there are not many Grenadiers about in his area (Lancashire). I said that I would post in here to see if anyone with a suitable vehicle up that way can help out.
Contact
Michael Gallery
North West Propshafts
Tel: 01257 791681
www.northwestpropshafts.com

 

[CRH]

I have had a bit of email correspondence with the chap from North West Propshafts who said he is expecting their customer with the lifted Grenadier to return and report back this week. He also said it would be helpful to have a look at a standard spec, non lifted vehicle but the problem is that he feels there are not many Grenadiers about in his area (Lancashire). I said that I would post in here to see if anyone with a suitable vehicle up that way can help out.
Contact
Michael Gallery
North West Propshafts
Tel: 01257 791681
www.northwestpropshafts.com

No guarantees, but if I get time, I will call in as often in that area for work

 

[Happyoldgit]

No guarantees, but if I get time, I will call in as often in that area for work

Unfortunately, I’m not local or up that way at all now. While current aftermarket shafts with UJ’s are similar it never hurts to have a fresh pair of eyes and appropriate background skills take a look.

 

[CRH]

Unfortunately, I’m not local or up that way at all now. While current aftermarket shafts with UJ’s are similar it never hurts to have a fresh pair of eyes and appropriate background skills take a look.

I have no appropriate skills but happy to try and help

 

[Happyoldgit]

I have no appropriate skills but happy to try and help

Understood, I meant the chaps at NWP

 

[ECrider]

Rooting for NWP, the clue is in their name.
Good luck chaps, would buy them in a heartbeat if works out.

 

[Zimm]

Interesting, Caster automatically increases on the Grenadier when it's lifted due to suspension geometry. This is opposite of say a Land Rover with radius arms.

There ya go. Make a kit that eliminates the upper arms, and has lower radius arms with offset bushings for various lifts… that way when the axle droops the pinion rotates up and relives some of the stress.

 

[LRNAD90]

JMACX Australia announced their GVM upgrades, and they talk (briefly mention really) an updated front propshaft as part of their 4" lift/35" tire, 4,496 KG GVM Package..

"The INEOS Grenadier just got a MAJOR UPGRADE! If you’ve been chasing a solution to carry heavier loads, improve ride height and ride quality, all while running bigger tyres, JMACX now has you fully covered.We’re proud to launch the INEOS Grenadier GVM upgrade, with initial options of 4000kg and 4495kg GVM, featuring 2” lift options and compatibility with up to 33” tyres, available pre- and post-registration.Coming soon is our ultimate package: a 4495kg GVM with 4” lift and 35” tyre capability, taking this already luxurious rig to the next level.This GVM enhancement has been fully ADR 88 tested and certified, giving you complete confidence in the quality and engineering JMACX is known for.If you’re chasing a GVM upgrade for your INEOS Grenadier, JMACX has you covered. "

At about the 2:31 mark, you see a glimpse of it..

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqnd8yIrhwI

 

[Lexx]

At the 6:20 mark, you'll hear him talking about propshaft angles. Obviously they're aware of the issue. And they're talking about 2 - 4" lifts, and doing it comprehensively, so they're definitely going to have to engineer a solution to the pinon angle/CV boot issue.

You can see the CV joint here. It definitely looks different than the oem one from what I can tell.

 

[TCMColorado]

JMACX Australia announced their GVM upgrades, and they talk (briefly mention really) an updated front propshaft as part of their 4" lift/35" tire, 4,496 KG GVM Package..

"The INEOS Grenadier just got a MAJOR UPGRADE! If you’ve been chasing a solution to carry heavier loads, improve ride height and ride quality, all while running bigger tyres, JMACX now has you fully covered.We’re proud to launch the INEOS Grenadier GVM upgrade, with initial options of 4000kg and 4495kg GVM, featuring 2” lift options and compatibility with up to 33” tyres, available pre- and post-registration.Coming soon is our ultimate package: a 4495kg GVM with 4” lift and 35” tyre capability, taking this already luxurious rig to the next level.This GVM enhancement has been fully ADR 88 tested and certified, giving you complete confidence in the quality and engineering JMACX is known for.If you’re chasing a GVM upgrade for your INEOS Grenadier, JMACX has you covered. "

At about the 2:31 mark, you see a glimpse of it..

View attachment 7920706

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqnd8yIrhwI

Per the image the shaft has a single u-joint at the differential. The question is, what is at the transfer case? If also a single u-joint this shaft will not run without vibrations/harmonics. A single-single combo has to have matching angles at both ends to run smoothly. If it is a double cardan at the transfer case it will still not run as smooth as the OEM Rzeppa. For a single joint plus double cardan combo the single joint should ideally be at zero degrees for the shaft to run without vibrations while the double can be any any angle within its operating range. These angles are not possible on the Grenadier but this is the setup used successfully on a lot of Jeep Wranglers.

There is a reason the OEM shaft uses Rzeppa CV joints. It is the only solution that will operate smoothly given the geometry of the front axle and transfer case. That said a shaft with a CV at the diff and a double cardan at the transfercase still seems like a potential solution if one can actually be fabricated and assuming the angle at the transfer case does not exceed the operating limit of the double cardan joint. Unfortunately, this operating angle is likely to be right at the edge of the envelope in a CV-double cardan setup.

 

[ORSO]

However, such a thick flange on the pinion side further exaggerates the operating angles of the shaft.

 

[Zimm]

Do a quick one line on a cad program and measure the angle change by adding 25 mm to the thickness… if they have solved the boot issue, you’ll see it isn’t the deal breaker. It’s not much.

 

[LRNAD90]

However, such a thick flange on the pinion side further exaggerates the operating angles of the shaft.

In theory, not sure how much in practice. NWP's solution for adapting to the factory flanges seems more elegant and doesn't really appear to affect overall length as much. Curious how either of these solutions work out.

Since JMACX's solution has to take into account multiple factors and regulatory approval, hoping (maybe) there will be more engineering effort applied. Who knows, just found it interesting and thought I'd share..