Front and rear diff locks or just centre diff lock

[DaveB]

I am new to the forum and just about to buy my first Grenadier. I have had defenders for the last 15 years and sold my 110 pickup last year. I do a reasonable amount of off road as I shoot and have a gun dog. I also like to go off road but nothing as serious as some of the stuff you see on Youtube rock crawling. I went for a test drive in a trialmaster and used the central diff lock and the front and rear diff locks but the course we were on was easily handled by the centre diff lock on its own. With my defenders I only ever had a centre diff lock and never got stuck anywhere. I have found the Grenadier I am looking for in all respects other than it doesn't have the front and rear diff locks as an option. So the advice I am looking for is just how much do I need the separate diff locks. Am I likely to regret it if I just go for the centre diff lock? That's all I have ever been used to. Thanks guys.

They can't be added later so your decision is final.
You need to decide if you will never need/want the diff locks and go from there.

 

[Max]

All wise words thank you. On balance I think I will regret not having them and it's a good point about holding onto value. Thanks a lot.

Exactly. A TrialMaster and a new Belfast jacket just in case

 

[anand]

Not one mention of left foot breaking or driving through the brake
Diff lockers are not needed unless some pretty serious tracks or heavy trailers are in the equation IMO

This is exactly what I was referencing... It's one of the basic concepts taught in our off road classes and can make a massive difference. Driver training can surpass improperly used electronic or mechanical aids any day of the week

 

[Gasguzzler]

I run a tree contracting business, we do some forestry and clearance work. I tow a 2.7 ton excavator on and off of muddy sites with the grenadier when I have to.

Bit of both, sometimes you just know that having the lockers in will be necessary and preemptive activation gives you the best first attempt at track. Other times I've noticed the rear losing grip on one side so just knock that one in and carry on.

Thank you, very interesting use case!

 

[BradS1]

2000s and 2010s LR traction control on auto is better than the Grenadiers is

Worked really well. My 2016 was also fantastic, I've only driven the IG in the snow once but it seems to just go like the snow isn't even there, so that's nice.

 

[Commodore]

Most of us won't need axle diff locks. Without them the traction control system is good enough for all but the most challenging terrain.
Having said that, I would (and did) go for difflocks. Nice to have and no chance of retrofitting them.

I completely disagree. The Grenadier basically does not have traction control. You need lockers on this truck for any real off road use.

 

[landmannnn]

I completely disagree. The Grenadier basically does not have traction control. You need lockers on this truck for any real off road use.

According to the Ineos website and threads on here, it does. So I am not sure I understand your reply.

 

[globalgregors]

Been in a bunch of different operating environments now and have only employed the F/R lockers in three situations where I’d say they were absolutely essential: soft sand up the steep side of a dune; a river crossing with soft entry/exit points; and a jungle road that had subsided then been churned up by trucks. They were all remote locations with no other vehicles to assist a recovery, we were VERY pleased to have the lockers on the day.

 

[MattA]

According to the Ineos website and threads on here, it does. So I am not sure I understand your reply.

They have TC but it is very poor and essentially doesn’t work off road whereas the Land Rover or Toyota TC is very good and works extremely well

 

[Commodore]

According to the Ineos website and threads on here, it does. So I am not sure I understand your reply.

Have you seen the agile off road slip test? Grenadier’s TC is basically useless. Fine by me because I grew up off reading long before computer helped and you had to use diff locks or LSD.

 

[anand]

Have you seen the agile off road slip test? Grenadier’s TC is basically useless. Fine by me because I grew up off reading long before computer helped and you had to use diff locks or LSD.

Or your left foot... It really does work wonders driving through the brake

 

[pmatusov]

Old Defenders rarely needed axle diff locks because due to their Range Rover suspension they could keep most wheels on the ground very well.
New Defenders don't need axle diff locks because of incredibly good traction control, carried over from LR3/LR4.
The Grenadier, however great it is, loses to old Defenders in axle travel and to new Defenders in traction control. All in all, it is an incredibly well-priced option that should not be skipped.

 

[MattA]

Or your left foot... It really does work wonders driving through the brake

Most don’t understand this because they have never been shown how to get the most out of a 4wd.
I was very lucky to be taught early on by a very experienced 4wder. I had a standard Discovery 1, open diffs and 32 inch cheese cutters
5 years experience doing hard tracks with that 4wd and it would consistently go where beginners with 35s and twin locked would struggle
I still drive through the brake on hard tracks with modern 4wds with excellent TC and it still makes a marked improvement to traction and car control

 

[Tazzieman]

because I grew up off reading long before computer helped

I grew up spelling before reading

 

[Dokatd]

Something to keep in mind is that using lockers at times that you don't necessarily need them but they don't hurt to have them can severely reduce the stress on the rest of the truck. Rather than two footing and working your spider gears and brakes you can very easily and with less torque and wheel speed climb out of trouble.

That said, I always attempt things unlocked first if practicable and then lock once I know it's basically a requirement. I do not ram rod my trucks through stuff. If you are newish to off-road work and you are spinning tires and bouncing like Pin ball down the trail then you're doing it wrong. Except for Rock Bouncers anyway.

 

[Max]

According to the Ineos website and threads on here, it does. So I am not sure I understand your reply.

What people are referring to is not traction control as such but ESC Electronic Stability Control. It does confuse but it is best deactivated by pressing twice the Off Road Mode when 4X4 driving. ESC automatically resumes if vehicle speed reaches 80km/h. It may have been created for dirt and wet roads.

ESC is there to keep you stable if you're about to lose traction on the bitumen or dirt road, it will brake you and stop you from losing traction. If ESC is active and you're off road, say for instance your in sand and you lose traction it brakes you and drops revs at the same time, you are now not going anywhere. Off Road mode, low range, rear locker and I reversed out...rookie error.

ESC activation is spontaneous, no warning and has happened to me now twice when pushing too hard according to the sensor's degree, not mine...both dry roads, it must of sensed what I thought could happen, something might break free, a weird feeling having the brakes applied for you. I would like to turn that one off at will not forever, it has it's place...modern motoring

 

[landmannnn]

What people are referring to is not traction control as such but ESC Electronic Stability Control. It does confuse but it is best deactivated by pressing twice the Off Road Mode when 4X4 driving. ESC automatically resumes if vehicle speed reaches 80km/h. It may have been created for dirt and wet roads.

ESC is there to keep you stable if you're about to lose traction on the bitumen or dirt road, it will brake you and stop you from losing traction. If ESC is active and you're off road, say for instance your in sand and you lose traction it brakes you and drops revs at the same time, you are now not going anywhere. Off Road mode, low range, rear locker and I reversed out...rookie error.

ESC activation is spontaneous, no warning and has happened to me now twice when pushing too hard according to the sensor's degree, not mine...both dry roads, it must of sensed what I thought could happen, something might break free, a weird feeling having the brakes applied for you. I would like to turn that one off at will not forever, it has it's place...modern motoring

OK.

My understanding is..

Normal road driving, ESC acts to reduce over or understeer by braking a single wheel. Traction control reduces power of a wheel slip is detected.

Off Road driving (with the off road button active) ESC is inactive until 80 kph. Traction control brakes a spinning wheel without reducing power.

How well this has been implemented is another debate.

 

[DenisM]

ESC is also automatically disengaged when the centre diff is locked in high range... as I discovered this afternoon preparing to scoot along the beach towards Teewah village on the Noosa North Shore luckily evading the incoming tide (we were a tad later than planned). My son's (raised) Subaru Forester led the way ...the Subaru seemed to float over the surface like a sand crab...
As for the Grenadier, tyres at 22psi, 40-55kmh , high range, centre diff locked, first time the new t/f case had been put to proper use since it was installed 11 months and just 2000km ago ... "Very happy chappy"

 

[Brad@SuperiorCO]

I am new to the forum and just about to buy my first Grenadier. I have had defenders for the last 15 years and sold my 110 pickup last year. I do a reasonable amount of off road as I shoot and have a gun dog. I also like to go off road but nothing as serious as some of the stuff you see on Youtube rock crawling. I went for a test drive in a trialmaster and used the central diff lock and the front and rear diff locks but the course we were on was easily handled by the centre diff lock on its own. With my defenders I only ever had a centre diff lock and never got stuck anywhere. I have found the Grenadier I am looking for in all respects other than it doesn't have the front and rear diff locks as an option. So the advice I am looking for is just how much do I need the separate diff locks. Am I likely to regret it if I just go for the centre diff lock? That's all I have ever been used to. Thanks guys.

Not sure of the market in your area, here in the western US, front and rear diffs are good tools to have and necessary for resale. We were in Moab a month ago on hard trails, 1 Grenadier didn't have front and rear diffs and made all the trails. They needed to build some momentum where others just crawled up. No mud out here though. You are probably the best to judge, and you got by without lockers before.

 

[255/85]

OK.

My understanding is..

Off Road driving (with the off road button active) ESC is inactive until 80 kph. Traction control brakes a spinning wheel without reducing power

It's my understanding that ESC is only reduced or goes into "ESC Offroad" until the front/rear diff locks are engaged. Then ESC and ABS are compleely disabled. Locking the center or activating Offroad Mode won't completely disable ESC. See page 171 of the US version user manual (187 in the French version).

We also have an ESC Off button in the overhead (specalist) controls. Sadly no one has explained its usage or function to me yet. Assuming it does what it says on the tin, that may be a quicker route than the push-wait-push again Offroad Mode switch.