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Estimated Costs in the US based off Australia as of Nov 2022

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Quality and competition mostly. I have a 100 and a 200 series land cruiser and have compared their performance and other features to the Grenadier. The engine performance of the Grenadier is very close to the 100 series land cruiser however, the 100 series Land Cruiser is way more plush. The 200 series has lots more engine performance and luxury than the other two.
I doubt that most buyers of this vehicle will live and drive it in off-road situations only, it is going to have to hit the highway and it might be severely lacking at 70mph. Wish I could have driving it on the highway but all driving was off-road at less than 20mph.

Interesting comparison. We have a 4runner limited with the 4.7l v8. Plushness is probably somewhere between your 100 and 200. I'd like something a bit more rugged.

Engine performance is a concern though. Does your 100 series have the 2UZ v8? Mine does pretty well on the mountain passes here. I'm not looking to take a step back though.
 

DaveB

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Quality and competition mostly. I have a 100 and a 200 series land cruiser and have compared their performance and other features to the Grenadier. The engine performance of the Grenadier is very close to the 100 series land cruiser however, the 100 series Land Cruiser is way more plush. The 200 series has lots more engine performance and luxury than the other two.
I doubt that most buyers of this vehicle will live and drive it in off-road situations only, it is going to have to hit the highway and it might be severely lacking at 70mph. Wish I could have driving it on the highway but all driving was off-road at less than 20mph.
A good point.
Many people are comparing it to SUV's and some very high spec and luxury
If that is your options and use case then your head has to tell you the Grenadier is not for you.
That doesn't mean the Grenadier is a bad vehicle it simply is not the best vehicle for you.
Landrover get bagged out because they went more for the customers who wanted features and electronics and on road performance.
That's what most of their customers want.


Many of us on this forum are buying it because we want a vehicle that will last us 20 years.
If I was to make a list of all the vehicles on the market new today, that I was confident will last 20 years, it would be an extremely short list.
 

DaveB

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I tried to build a US dollar spreadsheet with model and option prices from Australia. Definitely wrong and likely out of date but maybe useful for some ballpark guestimating.

AUD to USD Grenadier worksheet
If I understand the Australian market correctly, you also need to net out the luxury tax.

Tax burden: (1+2)
(1) GST: 10% * (price)
(2) Luxury tax: 33% * ((price + GST) -$69,152)

Interest rate:
USD/AUD: 1/1.48

Station Wagon $98,000 = USD$55,800
Trialmaster/Fieldmaster $109,425 = USD$61,076
There is no Luxury car tax on the Grenadier in Australia
 

DaveB

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With your spreadsheet instead of hard coding the exchange rate it will be easier to update if you put the current exchange rate in a cell say J2 and then in your formulas use *$J$2 instead of a value
This means to keep the spreadsheet up to date you just type the current exchange rate into J2 and all your values will update
 

LC0013

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Interesting comparison. We have a 4runner limited with the 4.7l v8. Plushness is probably somewhere between your 100 and 200. I'd like something a bit more rugged.

Engine performance is a concern though. Does your 100 series have the 2UZ v8? Mine does pretty well on the mountain passes here. I'm not looking to take a step back though.
Yes, it is a 2UZ-FE. It runs very well and most vacations trips were from Arkansas to Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona and New Mexico. No problems at all in the mountains. I used to have one of those V8 4Runners and am sure that my son would love to have that one back.
 
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LC0013

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A good point.
Many people are comparing it to SUV's and some very high spec and luxury
If that is your options and use case then your head has to tell you the Grenadier is not for you.
That doesn't mean the Grenadier is a bad vehicle it simply is not the best vehicle for you.
Landrover get bagged out because they went more for the customers who wanted features and electronics and on road performance.
That's what most of their customers want.


Many of us on this forum are buying it because we want a vehicle that will last us 20 years.
If I was to make a list of all the vehicles on the market new today, that I was confident will last 20 years, it would be an extremely short list.
Yes, I want a vehicle to last at least 20 years and my Land Cruisers have proven they are up to the task. Irregardless, at a higher price one has to look at such capable vehicles which include Land Cruisers and G Wagons (used ones with low mileage and at $58-$75k are available).
Honestly, I was happy with my 1986 FJ60 and was hoping the Grenadier would be an apt replacement. Not concerned about high speed but it needs to be stable at 70mph. It can be a turtle but it has to be utterly reliable.
 

MrMike

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Well @DaveB it will be cheaper than mainland EU. Prices in the realm of $150K+ AUD Such disparity in the market is confusing ATM, roumour abounds
 

stickshifter

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The one thing I’ve learned about car pricing between world markets is never a direct comparison. I’m regularly surprised by even the inexplicable differences between US and Canadian pricing (Canada is often less expensive). The numbers above are as accurate as any I’ve come up with. High $60s all the way to $85k with a bunch of options. I will never complain about what we pay in the US versus other markets. I am often jealous however, of the variety of choices available in other (European) markets. We will not be rewarded for our early interest in the grenadier though. We will have to pay the big price increases from Nov 2022. Inflation is real
It sounds like you are an American customer who sent in the $450 reservation fee back in the early days (toward the end of 2021). If so, then you and I are in the same position. Unfortunately, there has been no indication from Ineos that American customers will be spared the inflation-related price increase. European and Australian customers who sent in the $450 reservation fee, and then the $2,500 non-refundable deposit a few months ago, went "under contract" at the time of sending in the $2,500 deposit. Those are the only customers - as far as we know - who are being spared the price increase. No American customers are under contract, we just have reservations, and these are refundable. Pricing has not been announced for the American market. Until it is, we won't know anything for sure. Like you said - I would guess that we will be facing a significant price increase.

On a personal note, I've got some reasons for getting a new vehicle soon, rather than on an unknown time-line, so I am shopping now, and am close to putting down a deposit. If the Grenadier comes in at a good price, I will buy one. If it is "over-priced" (by my own personal estimation) I will not. By some estimates, American customers are looking at a 14% price increase over the initial deliveries soon to be underway in Europe and Australia. There is no vehicle in this class, and roughly the size of a Jeep Wrangler / Toyota 4-Runner, that I would pay close to $100,000 (U.S. Dollars) for. That's just me - other folk will make different decisions.

The Grenadier looks like it is going to be a fantastic vehicle, and great at what it was intended to do. But from my perspective, it has some limitations, and it just isn't worth $80,000 - $95,000 (U.S. Dollars) - not when there are other vehicles to choose from that do some things better - and other things worse - but at a better price. So based on one's individual needs / wants, there are other options. These three are all body-on-frame vehicles, with solid front and rear axles, and true 4-wheel drive systems with a manually engaged low-range - like the Grenadier:

(1) Jeep Wrangler: less capability in payload and towing, but more wheel articulation when using the front anti-sway bar disconnect (which also increases comfort off-road); 33 or 35-inch tires from the factory with a full-size spare and appropriate gearing; multiple after-market differential lockers (if you don't want the factory e-lockers); and you are out the door at a much lower price. There are multiple - and now well-tested - superchargers to boost performance on the 3.6 Pentastar to somewhere around 360 horsepower and 360 lb. ft. of torque (staying within safe limits of the Pentastar architecture), and these run ~$8,000 installed, which would still bring you in well-under the price of the Grenadier - if we get the 14% price increase. Manual transmission are available, all models have a manual transfer case, and the autos use the same ZF 8-speed as the Grenadier. Heated steering wheel is available.

(2) Jeep Gladiator: there is a diesel option for North America (unlike with the Grenadier) making 260 horsepower, and 442 lb. ft. of torque; more cargo capacity in volume; after-market options to increase practical payload (though not legal payload); the easy addition of 35 or 37 inch tires; readily available gears (unlike with the Grenadier) so one can accommodate larger tires by moving to 4.10 (for the diesel) or 4.56 or 4.88 or 5.13 for the gas version; again - better articulation than a Grenadier; and multiple after-market differential lockers. After modifications, you've got a massively capable off-road rig, an outstanding overlander, and still priced under the high-end estimate for the Grenadier - if we get the 14% price increase. Manual transmission available with the gas engine, all models have a manual transfer case; the gas autos use the same ZF 8-speed as the gas Grenadier, while the diesel Gladiator gets the same ZF 8-speed as the diesel version of the Grenadier. Heated steering wheel is available.

(3) Ram Power Wagon: obviously, a vehicle in a different class than the Grenadier, but an excellent off-roader for its size, and an excellent overland vehicle. This is a big truck that will not fit on narrow Jeep trails. But the size is an enormous bonus - if you are looking for more capacity than a "mid-size" wagon (Grenadier, Wrangler, 4-Runner, Bronco). Comes standard with a 6.4 V8 that makes 410 horsepower and 429 lb. ft. of torque, and it sounds great - but it is pretty thirsty. Standard equipment, at no additional charge, includes: front and rear locking differentials, dis-connectable front anti-sway bar, steel bumpers, and a front mounted 12,000-pound electric winch. Payload is not great - around 1,600 pounds if you stay away from options like the big glass sunroof. A super-easy modification can be made to bring payload up to 2,000 pounds, by swapping out the rear springs for aftermarket versions. The Power Wagon only comes with an auto transmission - the same beefy version of the ZF 8-speed as found in the diesel Grenadier. Starting price is $68,625 but you get all the off-road kit at this price. Almost all options are comfort and safety upgrades - and a heated steering wheel is available.

Some folks are going to misinterpret this post, and assume I'm hating on the Grenadier. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think the Grenadier is going to be a fantastic vehicle. I wish it were here now. But the delays in production are pushing me past my own personal buying deadline, and the potential price increase might be more than I'm willing to spend for a vehicle in this class. Once again, the test drive date for my region has been postponed (originally scheduled for October 2022, then early 2023, then March 2023, now April 2023). Congrats to all those customers in Europe and Australia who will be getting their vehicles soon, and who are paying the original estimated cost!
 
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DDG

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It sounds like you are an American customer who sent in the $450 reservation fee back in the early days (toward the end of 2021). If so, then you and I are in the same position. Unfortunately, there has been no indication from Ineos that American customers will be spared the inflation-related price increase. European and Australian customers who sent in the $450 reservation fee, and then the $2,500 non-refundable deposit a few months ago, went "under contract" at the time of sending in the $2,500 deposit. Those are the only customers - as far as we know - who are being spared the price increase. No American customers are under contract, we just have reservations, and these are refundable. Pricing has not been announced for the American market. Until it is, we won't know anything for sure. Like you said - I would guess that we will be facing a significant price increase.

On a personal note, I've got some reasons for getting a new vehicle soon, rather than on an unknown time-line, so I am shopping now, and am close to putting down a deposit. If the Grenadier comes in at a good price, I will buy one. If it is "over-priced" (by my own personal estimation) I will not. By some estimates, American customers are looking at a 14% price increase over the initial deliveries soon to be underway in Europe and Australia. There is no vehicle in this class, and roughly the size of a Jeep Wrangler / Toyota 4-Runner, that I would pay close to $100,000 (U.S. Dollars) for. That's just me - other folk will make different decisions.

The Grenadier looks like it is going to be a fantastic vehicle, and great at what it was intended to do. But from my perspective, it has some limitations, and it just isn't worth $80,000 - $95,000 (U.S. Dollars) - not when there are other vehicles to choose from that do some things better - and other things worse - but at a better price. So based on one's individual needs / wants, there are other options. These three are all body-on-frame vehicles, with solid front and rear axles, and true 4-wheel drive systems with a manually engaged low-range - like the Grenadier:

(1) Jeep Wrangler: less capability in payload and towing, but more wheel articulation when using the front anti-sway bar disconnect (which also increases comfort off-road); 33 or 35-inch tires from the factory with a full-size spare and appropriate gearing; multiple after-market differential lockers (if you don't want the factory e-lockers); and you are out the door at a much lower price. There are multiple - and now well-tested - superchargers to boost performance on the 3.6 Pentastar to somewhere around 360 horsepower and 360 lb. ft. of torque (staying within safe limits of the Pentastar architecture), and these run ~$8,000 installed, which would still bring you in well-under the price of the Grenadier - if we get the 14% price increase. Manual transmission are available, all models have a manual transfer case, and the autos use the same ZF 8-speed as the Grenadier. Heated steering wheel is available.

(2) Jeep Gladiator: there is a diesel option for North America (unlike with the Grenadier) making 260 horsepower, and 442 lb. ft. of torque; more cargo capacity in volume; after-market options to increase practical payload (though not legal payload); the easy addition of 35 or 37 inch tires; readily available gears (unlike with the Grenadier) so one can accommodate larger tires by moving to 4.10 (for the diesel) or 4.56 or 4.88 or 5.13 for the gas version; again - better articulation than a Grenadier; and multiple after-market differential lockers. After modifications, you've got a massively capable off-road rig, an outstanding overlander, and still priced under the high-end estimate for the Grenadier - if we get the 14% price increase. Manual transmission available with the gas engine, all models have a manual transfer case; the gas autos use the same ZF 8-speed as the gas Grenadier, while the diesel Gladiator gets the same ZF 8-speed as the diesel version of the Grenadier. Heated steering wheel is available.

(3) Ram Power Wagon: obviously, a vehicle in a different class than the Grenadier, but an excellent off-roader for its size, and an excellent overland vehicle. This is a big truck that will not fit on narrow Jeep trails. But the size is an enormous bonus - if you are looking for more capacity than a "mid-size" wagon (Grenadier, Wrangler, 4-Runner, Bronco). Comes standard with a 6.4 V8 that makes 410 horsepower and 429 lb. ft. of torque, and it sounds great - but it is pretty thirsty. Standard equipment, at no additional charge, includes: front and rear locking differentials, dis-connectable front anti-sway bar, steel bumpers, and a front mounted 12,000-pound electric winch. Payload is not great - around 1,600 pounds if you stay away from options like the big glass sunroof. A super-easy modification can be made to bring payload up to 2,000 pounds, by swapping out the rear springs for aftermarket versions. The Power Wagon only comes with an auto transmission - the same beefy version of the ZF 8-speed as found in the diesel Grenadier. Starting price is $68,625 but you get all the off-road kit at this price. Almost all options are comfort and safety upgrades - and a heated steering wheel is available.

Some folks are going to misinterpret this post, and assume I'm hating on the Grenadier. Nothing could be further from the truth. I think the Grenadier is going to be a fantastic vehicle. I wish it were here now. But the delays in production are pushing me past my own personal buying deadline, and the potential price increase might be more than I'm willing to spend for a vehicle in this class. Once again, the test drive date for my region has been postponed (originally scheduled for October 2022, then early 2023, then March 2023, now April 2023). Congrats to all those customers in Europe and Australia who will be getting their vehicles soon, and who are paying the original estimated cost!
Your analysis is spot on. I can’t see a scenario in which the NA market is spared the price increase. There definitely are a lot of choices in that price range. I don’t read anything in your post that could be construed as negative toward the grenadier. It’s a clear cut value proposition. I suppose a hypothetical argument based on build quality could be made, but that can’t be established until it is established with time and reliability. That 14% price increase is a bigger deal than it first appears. I’m hopeful that a hands on experience AND knowing exactly what it will cost will make the decision easier.
 

stickshifter

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Your analysis is spot on. I can’t see a scenario in which the NA market is spared the price increase. There definitely are a lot of choices in that price range. I don’t read anything in your post that could be construed as negative toward the grenadier. It’s a clear cut value proposition. I suppose a hypothetical argument based on build quality could be made, but that can’t be established until it is established with time and reliability. That 14% price increase is a bigger deal than it first appears. I’m hopeful that a hands on experience AND knowing exactly what it will cost will make the decision easier.
Agreed on build quality. We won’t know for sure until some time passes, but Magna Steyr is good, and I’d assume better build quality than a Stellantis product. There are certainly some checks in the “negative column” when looking at Jeeps and Rams.
 

jeremy_matrix

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Agreed with you guys.
What about considering a slightly used G-Wagen in the $60-70k range? Lots of them available, just waiting to be spared a mall-crawling life. :p
 

IG_in_AZ

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Agreed with you guys.
What about considering a slightly used G-Wagen in the $60-70k range? Lots of them available, just waiting to be spared a mall-crawling life. :p
Just checked Carfax and there are 2 under $95K within 250 miles of Tucson. a 2014 and 2015. No thanks.
 

jeremy_matrix

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Just checked Carfax and there are 2 under $95K within 250 miles of Tucson. a 2014 and 2015. No thanks.
Have to stretch your mileage a bit mate. A few I just found (AutoTrader probably will have more);

2010 G550 w/ 36k $65k USD (get a PPI on this rig, this dealer has hit/miss vehicles at times)

2013 G63 w/ 44k $73.5k USD

2013 G63 w/ 39k $79k USD

Not to mention the gwagon is ugly.
Just curious what you find ugly. IG has a lot of G-Wagen elements.
 

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Just curious what you find ugly. IG has a lot of G-Wagen elements.
Proportions are off and too low to the ground. Hood slopes down in a sad looking kind of way. Resembles a kia soul. Some of those design elements are the ugliest parts of the grenadier. I would be shocked if anyone ever said the original defender isn't better looking than the grenadier. The fact that the grenadier isn't as handsome as the defender will put me off if the price comes in too high in the states for the grenadier. I'll just get an old defender and restore it instead. It will look better, hold its value (and probably increase in price), and have more sentimental value.

I'm primarily interested in the grenadier because I'm getting older and don't want to do that work or spend that kind of money if I don't have to.
 

IG_in_AZ

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Have to stretch your mileage a bit mate. A few I just found (AutoTrader probably will have more);

2010 G550 w/ 36k $65k USD (get a PPI on this rig, this dealer has hit/miss vehicles at times)

2013 G63 w/ 44k $73.5k USD

2013 G63 w/ 39k $79k USD


Just curious what you find ugly. IG has a lot of G-Wagen elements.
After owning 2 used BMWs, there's a 0.0% chance I'll ever buy an out of warranty German car again, much less a 10+ year old one.
 

jeremy_matrix

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Proportions are off and too low to the ground. Hood slopes down in a sad looking kind of way. Resembles a kia soul. Some of those design elements are the ugliest parts of the grenadier. I would be shocked if anyone ever said the original defender isn't better looking than the grenadier. The fact that the grenadier isn't as handsome as the defender will put me off if the price comes in too high in the states for the grenadier. I'll just get an old defender and restore it instead. It will look better, hold its value (and probably increase in price), and have more sentimental value.

I'm primarily interested in the grenadier because I'm getting older and don't want to do that work or spend that kind of money if I don't have to.
Horses for courses but while an old restored Defender can certainly retain value and they look great, they're apples-oranges vs a "similar-looking" vehicle(IG) with 40+yrs of advancements/improvements built in. I presume that even a Heritage Design D110 (but now you're talking lots more $$$$ over an IG) will still feel antiquated in many ways vs the IG.

After owning 2 used BMWs, there's a 0.0% chance I'll ever buy an out of warranty German car again, much less a 10+ year old one.
Get a $3500 Fidelity aftermarket warranty from Costco and you shouldn't have much to worry about.

All good banter here about the options beyond an IG...
 

DDG

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Agreed with you guys.
What about considering a slightly used G-Wagen in the $60-70k range? Lots of them available, just waiting to be spared a mall-crawling life. :p
As the owner of a 2019 G wagen (new style), there’s no escaping the stereo type. No matter what, you’re seen as a jerk. It’s the reason mine has fewer than a thousand miles on it in four and a half years. Build quality could not be better though. Much of the same attitude persists about the new Defender, despite the fact that nearly no one has driven one. I’m fearful the grenadier will meet the same fate. Jealousy and stereotyping are very ingrained in people.
 
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