Americas Don't buy a Grenadier (Steering pump noise and HVAC issues)

[spyder6255]

Huh owl sell aftermarket power steering pump?

not sure but the OWL latest post had some info on the steering components, so not sure if its part of the pump...

 

[anand]

Huh owl sell aftermarket power steering pump?

They had it on a vehicle (multiple maybe?) at the May Moab event.. It's a "complete steering system replacement"; there isn't any actual info as of yet from what I've seen, but it involves more than just the pump (I believe a new steering gear box as well)

 

[HereinDaRockies]

They had it on a vehicle (multiple maybe?) at the May Moab event.. It's a "complete steering system replacement"; there isn't any actual info as of yet from what I've seen, but it involves more than just the pump (I believe a new steering gear box as well)

Damn.. if Ineos continues to remain so god damn cheap, affected owners will have to go this route

 

[anand]

Damn.. if Ineos continues to remain so god damn cheap, affected owners will have to go this route

From what I heard of those that drove it, it will make it drive much more like your "average" SUV, so if that's what you're looking for.

Personally, even with the loudest pump I've heard, it isn't in any way detrimental to the experience of the vehicle. Maybe I don't drive with my windows down and through closed spaces enough.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

From what I heard of those that drove it, it will make it drive much more like your "average" SUV, so if that's what you're looking for.

Personally, even with the loudest pump I've heard, it isn't in any way detrimental to the experience of the vehicle. Maybe I don't drive with my windows down and through closed spaces enough.

For me the ps whine is the only gripe I have not been able to get accustomed to.

It diminishes my joy everytime I hear it in a very egregious way.

 

[abbeyroad]

Even a casual search on YouTube leads to the now infamous tea kettle pump squeal (clip 4:05 below). I'm looking forward to resolving this as driving with the window down is a major annoyance which is pathetic. I couldn't have guessed this would end up being an out of pocket problem on a brand new car even if I tried.

I'll either attempt to replace with a new pump self-funded or assess the aftermarket option(s) (e.g. OWL). I hit them up and they said stay tuned. Agile Offroad seemed disinterested though they're fully aware of the pump noise.

View: https://youtu.be/8sB-rZQzpz0?si=3VsKFcvSaDTHTknz&t=241

And here - fun don't stop. lol

View: https://youtu.be/0YiVd4ETNn8?si=avKURFsfx75WBn_3&t=306

 

[anand]

I'll either attempt to replace with a new pump self-funded or assess the aftermarket option(s) (e.g. OWL). I hit them up and they said stay tuned. Agile Offroad seemed disinterested though they're fully aware of the pump noise.

Dare I say Agile is more about doing the thing and Owl is more about looking the part... So it tracks

 

[Rupert]

Come on guys, cut the bull, go ahead and let IdahoGrenadier know that sound is the Flux Capacitor winding up. It's totally doing it's job electrically. You just have to insert biodegradable garbage in the pump to stop it from being hungry!

 

[Dokatd]

From what I heard of those that drove it, it will make it drive much more like your "average" SUV, so if that's what you're looking for.

Personally, even with the loudest pump I've heard, it isn't in any way detrimental to the experience of the vehicle. Maybe I don't drive with my windows down and through closed spaces enough.

Why are you offended by making the truck drive better. Is it your opinion that better handling on-road is full stop worse off-road. I don't care much about my squealing pump honestly, but a tighter and maybe different ratio steering gear that also comes with a quieter PS pump is high on my list. Otherwise I'm fairly content with mine even though the middle screen and AC shut down mid drive on me today in 103° ambient temps.

In my days of fabricating custom off-road trucks I placed high priority on making every truck handle as best as possible on and off-road. This was regardless of how extreme the truck was. I often had clients call me months later to comment how they didn't know a truck could be so well mannered both on and off-road.

The Grenadier is at best an adventure truck. Kind of akin to say a BMW GS or a Triumph Tiger etc. A Grenadier is not a high performance dirt bike or trials bike. So it should handle well on road and be very sure footed off-road. The Grenadier is touted as a vehicle you can travel the world with.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I’ve said at least a few times that this whole difference in expectations based on owner priorities thing is an irresolvable debate. I think EVERYONE would be pleased if some of the rough edges were sanded down. How much of an issue folks make of those issues - that depends on their priorities. I only really care about reliability and surviving whatever latest stupidity I have dreamed up. Spent the last couple of days wallowing in mud and muck as a sorry excuse for camping. Didn’t wash, didn’t have time to brush my teeth yesterday because I was dealing with the mess. Dinner was a protein shake and beef jerky. The Chippewa did not care - but they sure liked the Grenadier. I don’t think they noticed the steering pump whine, or were too polite to comment.

 

[Shopkeep]

I’ve said at least a few times that this whole difference in expectations based on owner priorities thing is an irresolvable debate. I think EVERYONE would be pleased if some of the rough edges were sanded down. How much of an issue folks make of those issues - that depends on their priorities. I only really care about reliability and surviving whatever latest stupidity I have dreamed up. Spent the last couple of days wallowing in mud and muck as a sorry excuse for camping. Didn’t wash, didn’t have time to brush my teeth yesterday because I was dealing with the mess. Dinner was a protein shake and beef jerky. The Chippewa did not care - but they sure liked the Grenadier. I don’t think they noticed the steering pump whine, or were too polite to comment.

Its interesting you raise expectations based on owner priorities. Still scratching my head trying to understand why this seems to be such a big issue in the States as opposed to ROW? Do the rest of us have different expectations?

 

[Jeremy996]

I'm beginning to wonder if the old Australian comment of "Whinging Poms" was just a little off-beam?

I have not seen/heard a UK Grenadier with a noisy power steering pump, but I have heard some MINIs with noisy pumps. I cannot imagine that Ineos Automotive managed to send all of the noisy pumps to the USA. To be fair, I came from old Defenders, so the Grenadier is a Rolls Royce in comparison.

 

[CrazyOldMan]

I'm beginning to wonder if the old Australian comment of "Whinging Poms" was just a little off-beam?

I have not seen/heard a UK Grenadier with a noisy power steering pump, but I have heard some MINIs with noisy pumps. I cannot imagine that Ineos Automotive managed to send all of the noisy pumps to the USA. To be fair, I came from old Defenders, so the Grenadier is a Rolls Royce in comparison.

They didn’t send them all to the US (I assume you are being facetious). @Shopkeep is right - we have gone soft in the US. Look at the build thread - half of the Aussies are showing stuff they improvised and built themselves. In the US, we don’t even remember how to do that. I offer to take someone fly fishing - but they say the knots are too intimidating (there are 3 that are most essential). Their (Aussie) self-sufficiency and creativity is an indictment of our (US) consumer culture. We have been turned into passive economic cogs - laboring and consuming, entertaining ourselves in our digital reality. Our expectations have risen with our wealth. The more urbanized we are, the higher our expectations and more consumerist we become. On MULTIPLE occasions, the Aussie members have questioned why the US members are making such a big deal over certain things. They are right to do so - and we (US members) should maybe reflect a little on where that might be coming from.

Keep calling us out, Aussies - it’s good for us. It’s good to remember what’s essential and what is a luxury. Still - it would be nice if the steering pump weren’t so loud ;o)

 

[[ Adam ]]

Our expectations have risen with our wealth. The more urbanized we are, the higher our expectations and more consumerist we become. On MULTIPLE occasions, the Aussie members have questioned why the US members are making such a big deal over certain things. They are right to do so - and we (US members) should maybe reflect a little on where that might be coming from.

Keep calling us out, Aussies - it’s good for us. It’s good to remember what’s essential and what is a luxury. Still - it would be nice if the steering pump weren’t so loud ;o)

TL; DR: The Grenadier was not designed around the driver, it was designed around its capabilities and is utilitarian by nature. Ineos and dealerships do buyers a disservice by tarting it up as anything other than a utilitarian off-road vehicle *at this time*. Perhaps with further development, they can land on the combination of luxury and off-road capability that the Land Rover and G-Wagons of the 90/2000's embodied.

First of all, please tell me what knots to begin studying now for the Grenadier Fly Fishing camp.

Secondly - The Aussies have the benefit of having lived with and owned the the utilitarian vehicles after which the Grenadier was modeled. They understand the compromises that are made in building vehicle in that mold. This makes the Grenadier a unicorn in the US, and some buyers seem to not understand the purpose for which it was built. They expect it to "compete" in all ways with a Land Rover or G-Wagon, to drive and sound like a 4-Runner. They believe that the price point affirms these expectations.

But its not any of those things.

Having watched the development of the Grenadier, I came to realize the intense investment Ineos made (I would estimate 70% or more of development costs) in all the things we can't see, especially those below the bumper. I'm talking of course about the frame, drivetrain and suspension. It is truly over-built and sized for a vehicle much, much larger than the Grenadier. My local Grenadier dealer has commented to me on several occasions that they had to go and buy tools that would previously only be used in a commercial trucking garage. The Grenadier is in many respects a commercial vehicle with a consumer cab.

Obviously the body-style design was worked up very early on, but it should be clear to everyone that the investment in the interior and driver experience was lacking. In that regard, I think the Grenadier likely has more in common with an Isuzu NPR light duty box truck than any of the vehicles mentioned above.

Edit: I've agreed with this sentiment for quite some time.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

They didn’t send them all to the US (I assume you are being facetious). @Shopkeep is right - we have gone soft in the US. Look at the build thread - half of the Aussies are showing stuff they improvised and built themselves. In the US, we don’t even remember how to do that. I offer to take someone fly fishing - but they say the knots are too intimidating (there are 3 that are most essential). Their (Aussie) self-sufficiency and creativity is an indictment of our (US) consumer culture. We have been turned into passive economic cogs - laboring and consuming, entertaining ourselves in our digital reality. Our expectations have risen with our wealth. The more urbanized we are, the higher our expectations and more consumerist we become. On MULTIPLE occasions, the Aussie members have questioned why the US members are making such a big deal over certain things. They are right to do so - and we (US members) should maybe reflect a little on where that might be coming from.

Keep calling us out, Aussies - it’s good for us. It’s good to remember what’s essential and what is a luxury. Still - it would be nice if the steering pump weren’t so loud ;o)

Ok… what was the point of your post?

You don’t want them to resolve this issue?

You have other more critical issues to champion for? (Which I can totally understand, if that’s the case. Individual priorities)

Or just want your soap box - “too trivial, doesn’t bother me!” In which case, that’s a lot of filler crap eh?

?

 

[CrazyOldMan]

Ok… what was the point of your post?

You don’t want them to resolve this issue?

You have other more critical issues to champion for? (Which I can totally understand, if that’s the case. Individual priorities)

Or just want your soap box - “too trivial, doesn’t bother me!”

?

Aussies are confused about why we (US) comment so much about things that seem, to them, trivial. They notice those things, but their reaction is more . . . subdued. I think they know why that’s the case, but are just being diplomatic. I would like them to be addressed, but I find the Aussie take on the Grenadier, its capabilities and its foibles, to be refreshing and proportionate to the circumstances. If someone is really going to get so wound up over something like this, I think their priorities are misaligned with the priorities of the team that built the Grenadier. That’s why these debates never go anywhere - “de rerum gustibus, non disputandum est.” Or more pithily put, “different strokes for different folks”

 

[CrazyOldMan]

TL; DR: The Grenadier was not designed around the driver, it was designed around its capabilities and is utilitarian by nature. Ineos and dealerships do buyers a disservice by tarting it up as anything other than a utilitarian off-road vehicle *at this time*. Perhaps with further development, they can land on the combination of luxury and off-road capability that the Land Rover and G-Wagons of the 90/2000's embodied.

First of all, please tell me what knots to begin studying now for the Grenadier Fly Fishing camp.

Secondly - The Aussies have the benefit of having lived with and owned the the utilitarian vehicles after which the Grenadier was modeled. They understand the compromises that are made in building vehicle in that mold. This makes the Grenadier a unicorn in the US, and some buyers seem to not understand the purpose for which it was built. They expect it to "compete" in all ways with a Land Rover or G-Wagon, to drive and sound like a 4-Runner. They believe that the price point affirms these expectations.

But its not any of those things.

Having watched the development of the Grenadier, I came to realize the intense investment Ineos made (I would estimate 70% or more of development costs) in all the things we can't see, especially those below the bumper. I'm talking of course about the frame, drivetrain and suspension. It is truly over-built and sized for a vehicle much, much larger than the Grenadier. My local Grenadier dealer has commented to me on several occasions that they had to go and buy tools that would previously only be used in a commercial trucking garage. The Grenadier is in many respects a commercial vehicle with a consumer cab.

Obviously the body-style design was worked up very early on, but it should be clear to everyone that the investment in the interior and driver experience was lacking. In that regard, I think the Grenadier likely has more in common with an Isuzu NPR light duty box truck than any of the vehicles mentioned above.

Edit: I've agreed with this sentiment for quite some time.

View: https://youtu.be/mALMhiXzZwA?si=kUuYdREd5U5fmFa7

 

[HereinDaRockies]

Aussies are confused about why we (US) comment so much about things that seem, to them, trivial. They notice those things, but their reaction is more . . . subdued. I think they know why that’s the case, but are just being diplomatic. I would like them to be addressed, but I find the Aussie take on the Grenadier, its capabilities and its foibles, to be refreshing and proportionate to the circumstances. If someone is really going to get so wound up over something like this, I think their priorities are misaligned with the priorities of the team that built the Grenadier. That’s why these debates never go anywhere - “de rerum gustibus, non disputandum est.” Or more pithily put, “different strokes for different folks”

The team behind the grenadier put out an alibexpress variant called arcane works.

Oooo silver ladder! Some leather bits inside. Love what you did off the standard grenadier grill!

Tell me they don’t care about “trivial” things like ps whine blasting at 89db ?

 

[[ Adam ]]

The team behind the grenadier put out an alibexpress variant called arcane works.

Oooo silver ladder! Some leather bits inside. Love what you did off the standard grenadier grill!

Tell me they don’t care about “trivial” things like ps whine blasting at 89db ?

As I said, tarting it up as anything other than a utilitarian off-roader is a disservice to buyers. Ineos finds themselves between a rock and a hard place (oh shit, we have to make money?), and are trying to make the best of the situation by putting lipstick on a pig.

Dont get mad at me when you kiss it and I laugh.

 

[HereinDaRockies]

As I said, tarting it up as anything other than a utilitarian off-roader is a disservice to buyers. Ineos finds themselves between a rock and a hard place (oh shit, we have to make money?), and are trying to make the best of the situation by putting lipstick on a pig.

Dont get mad at me when you kiss it and I laugh.

You give them very little confidence. You think their easier out was to market down market so they don’t need to solve monumental engineering challenges such as inventing the world’s first non-noisy power steering pump?

Bruh we are talking about reliably blowing warm air and power steering pump that doesn’t turn heads