Australasia Dealership to hand back license to Ineos +

[Steve.B]

Not good news
I had a discussion with Ineos over a year ago regarding complaints on here and elsewhere that the Adelaide dealer couldn't get basic answers from Ineos.
Things like when the vehicle was going to arrive, which vessel it was on, etc.
The rest of us were getting that information and in fact tracking our vehicles on the ship.

DaveB Vehicle Delivery

I have just been advised my vehicle is onboard the Traviata due to dock around the 9th September. Yeehaaa.

www.theineosforum.com

I am sure you will find comments on here regarding that.
I think a few other of the "standard" style car dealers were having similar issues or at least telling customers they were.
I know the communication between dealers and Ineos is still patchy at times but I would suggest they are handing it back either because it as not as financially attractive as they planned or they are getting a conflicting brand.
They currently handle these brands
Mercedes Benz Cars & Vans, Mazda, Nissan, Honda, HAVAL, Great Wall, Cherry, INEOS Grenadier, and GM Special Vehicles (including Corvette and Silverado)
Hyundai, Ford, Chevrolet, Buick, GMC, Toyota, Mazda or Nissan

Hi Dave,

Their Darwin yard is huge, and because the whole of the N/T has such a small population of approximately 250,000 as you say it is probably the only viable way for them to run a profitable business, if you have ever been to Darwin which I am sure you have, and seen their dealership, it is strange seeing all those brands at the one dealership.
SA has approximately 1,800,000 so you would think it could have at least one dealership, maybe even two.
For large areas with small populations, and for a brand specifically designed to travel in those remote areas, be it Canada, Africa or Australia, I for one would hope that Ineos subsidised those remote area dealerships.
Only about 60% of Canada is habitable, I don't know if that means you can't travel there ? , but if you can that would be extremely remote, and freezing, unlike here where our uninhabitable areas you can travel to are b----y hot.

 

[DaveB]

Hi Dave,

Their Darwin yard is huge, and because the whole of the N/T has such a small population of approximately 250,000 as you say it is probably the only viable way for them to run a profitable business, if you have ever been to Darwin which I am sure you have, and seen their dealership, it is strange seeing all those brands at the one dealership.
SA has approximately 1,800,000 so you would think it could have at least one dealership, maybe even two.
For large areas with small populations, and for a brand specifically designed to travel in those remote areas, be it Canada, Africa or Australia, I for one would hope that Ineos subsidised those remote area dealerships.
Only about 60% of Canada is habitable, I don't know if that means you can't travel there ? , but if you can that would be extremely remote, and freezing, unlike here where our uninhabitable areas you can travel to are b----y hot.

I have been to Darwin and Adelaide many many times.
They sure have a wide range of unusual vehicles.
I agree Ineos needs to subsidise or assist certain dealers in remote locations.
i just don't think they should be car dealers.
i think companies like SLRV, maybe Patriot campers, should be their dealers

 

[Max]

DaveB ​

ARB would be a good fit also...founded in Melbourne 1975

 

[Steve.B]

A couple of years ago Ineos said it was going to train and use all Bosch auto centres in Australia, and possibly world wide, I wonder what happened to that idea ? , that would have been perfect.
I don't know what their timeline was for the Bosch outlets, fingers crossed it happens soon, but I won't hold my breath.

 

[Tazzieman]

A couple of years ago Ineos said it was going to train and use all Bosch auto centres in Australia, and possibly world wide, I wonder what happened to that idea ? , that would have been perfect.
I don't know what their timeline was for the Bosch outlets, fingers crossed it happens soon, but I won't hold my breath.

I think it's hit a hurdle.

 

[AWo]

A couple of years ago Ineos said it was going to train and use all Bosch auto centres in Australia, and possibly world wide, I wonder what happened to that idea ? , that would have been perfect.
I don't know what their timeline was for the Bosch outlets, fingers crossed it happens soon, but I won't hold my breath.

That was an up and down. Steven Graham told me that already in 2018. Then I heard that they visited single Bosch locations and found several unsuitable (for simple reasons sometimes: a too low ceiling for example, to lift up a full size 4x4).

I assume not all of them, maybe most of them, are not educated, yet. Was it made clear at some point, which tasks a Bosch service will be perform in general? I know Bosch service stations for things like ignition, brakes, air conditioning, light, eletrical stuff, etc. But do they do oil changes, engine, gearbox, axle, drive shaft, etc, repairs?

AWo

 

[Offroad]

Very consistent with what we are hearing in the USA as well. I really think Ineos did a great job with building and launching the vehicle but they get an F in terms of overall communication.

 

[4runnernomore]

I have been to Darwin and Adelaide many many times.
They sure have a wide range of unusual vehicles.
I agree Ineos needs to subsidise or assist certain dealers in remote locations.
i just don't think they should be car dealers.
i think companies like SLRV, maybe Patriot campers, should be their dealers

In Darwin’s case a smaller outfit was approached by Ineos based on their outstanding reputation in repairing and servicing landrovers but unfortunately the company was not in a position at that time to take it on. The offer Ineos proposed required a very substantial outlay ( 7 figures) to take it on.

Brilliant mechanics, I use them for my Disco 2. I have known them for quite a few years now and wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them .

It’s a shame for the whole Ineos community they couldn’t take it on at that time. There are probably other small business’s out there in the same boat. Brilliant reputations but not able to manage the outlay required to buy into the franchise on a brand new vehicle with limited overall vehicle footprint.

The problem is that Australia is extremely large and the cities are spaced far apart with not much in between.
I think using standard car dealers is a mistake.
They need to be small specialist dealers with low overheads, or have another side to the business, like SLRV, to subsidise the Ineos business.
I can't see standard dealers lasting long term, they rely on volume turnover.

you are right Dave B, In Darwin’s case another small comapny was approached to take on Ineos . Brilliant mechanics with a very enviable reputation in Darwin for what they do.
Add in potentially limited vehicle saturation with one vehicle model ( it’s Darwin, also known as Toyota town) to gain return on that investment. Let alone the time away training, computers, specialist equipment, etc required whilst continuing to run their existing business.
It’s a very big gamble for a small specialist to take on if they don’t have another side business to keep paying the bills until the vehicle saturation (sales) and business builds in that area for the product.

Someone mentioned the young chap( Josh I think) that worked for the Adelaide company and it could be a great business opportunity for him. See above the reasoning why it probably wouldn’t be viable unless he had big backers to assist till the business could be built up and made profitable with the one brand or they would need to look at other brands for service and repair to maintain cash flow. How many Ineos’s do you think have been sold in South Australia so far and would that be enough to sustain a new business which would probably cost at least 5 million to set up from scratch ( franchise, building, fit out, insurances stock etc), let alone support a family in these times.

Unfortunately I think it is out of reach for most small family business’s at this time until a lot more vehicles are sold to make it potentially viable to take that risk on.

 

[Top Cat]

Very consistent with what we are hearing in the USA as well. I really think Ineos did a great job with building and launching the vehicle but they get an F in terms of overall communication.

Hi Offroad,
yes,I think the concept, design, infrastructure build (UK originally then Hambach became available) and marketing were successful and thats because they focussed on these issues. The customer service angle was never really considered and this is borne out by the global concerns expressed by buyers when dealing with the company on line. Once the dealers were in place the lack of experience and the lack of resources for a true CRM system and proactive front line response has really only starting to show now at regional, country and continent levels.
To deliver the car at all was a miracle and we all understand that but it has been let down by poor after delivery strategy and lack of resources.
In starting this thread, I honestly thought that it was an Adelaide issue, but it seems to be far ranging.
Lets hope they get it right soon or else Quartermaster and Fusilier will be hard to move.
That said, I still love my Grenadier!! Ineos need to woo me back as a supporter of the brand, especially when out here in Australia, the Outback really is the best place to place the ute especially.

 

[AWo]

When I look at how often personnel changes at IA and thereby no responsibilities are established, I do not wonder myself. My interpretion of what I see, starting new dealerships in new countries, it looks to me like a flee forward. As I initially said, the car hit the market too early and that happened because IA needed to write bills, not only pay them. As the sales numbers are far behind the expectations, they need to open up new markets to keep things going. Especially as the chemical business can't support IA anymore or at least not like in the past. But if the sales numbers won't stabilize or even increase that will come to an end.

I also assume that money is tight at IA and so all parts are thrown into production, whenever possible. That explains the worse spare part covering.

AWo

 

[Andrew Kilby]

I hope this dealer close is not the start of a trend. The back up service is very sparce and great concern. there are places in Australia now that are several thousand kilometres from repair centres. It is going to be hard to compete with Toyota on that basis. If I lived on a cattle property or worked on a mine site, I would not consider the Grenadier.

 

[dreamalaska]

Ineos getting as far as they have in the rapid amount of time is, to me, nothing short of astounding. I see many parallels to Polaris bringing to market the new from the ground up clean-sheet Indian motorcycle they started in 2012, and introducing their new bike in 2014. And Polaris was already in the motorcycle business. After 10 years the “Indian” brand finally produced its first profit, having been underwritten by all of the other Polaris product lines. They initially had great momentum signing contracts with Dealers and were continually opening more. About 6 years after the start of the brand the number of new dealerships leveled off, then a few started dropping out. Right now Polaris is in a “battle of the bulge” with Harley, trying to keep dealerships up and taking market share. But it seems as soon as one dealership joins, another one somewhere else drops out.

Ineos is soooo damned close to “bringing it home” - I would be devastated if it all started falling apart…The vehicle imo is 90% perfect…wrap up the few niggles under warranty and “get’er done”….

We’re rooting for you Ineos!!!

 

[Stu_Barnes]

Some disappointing and frustrating news. Adelaide Hills Motor Group here in South Australia and the only dealer/agent in the state is closing down its showroom on the last day of April. This dealership (agency) was, looking at the comments in the forum, one of the best. Excellent rapport with customers and they fought very hard to get us information from Ineos in the early days. Their Ineos delivery book is very impressive!! The Mt Barker showroom will honour warranty until the end of the year but has zero skill base on Grenadiers and zero experience with the trials and tribulations of dealing with Ineos and is only a stop gap as it is owned by the same people handing the dealership back. If a proper dealership is not organized soon by Ineos I face a round trip of 1,600 kms to Melbourne plus accommodation costs just for a service.
I believe that this has been brought about by the appalling lack of communication by Ineos Australia to a fully committed and enthusiastic dealer who has spent a significant amount of money on a showroom, workshop, signage and assembling a great team of highly experienced people.
I have been one of the biggest fans of Grenadier here in South Australia, being one of the earliest orders, pushing the brand at every event and at people I meet at shows and on the outback tracks. Of course it's a huge effort to start up a car from scratch and the vehicle is fantastic! The marketing is so slick and promises so much, but the harsh reality of after sales service is one of indifference to both owners and dealers. We don't even have manuals to look after our own cars.
If Ineos truly want the brand to succeed, they cannot afford to lose excellent dealers like Adelaide Hills Group and the dedicated staff Greg had assembled to push the brand.
This is not the vision Jim Ratcliff promised us. Here, at the arse end of the world, 15,790 kms from European "closeness" of everything, I often rely on my vehicle to get me home from some of the most remote parts of the world. Thats the vehicle Jim promised, I took him at his word and backed him, as did many others and here we are, a major state in a first world country with no on going dealership or agency. If the Darwin agency goes next (owned by the same group) that's one third of Australia with no coverage. So much for the close100km service centres touted on the web site.
This isn't sour grapes, I love my Grenadier! Its the management that seems to be the problem.

I truly hope I am wrong and Ineos Australia has this under control. I feel terribly sorry for the great team that gave up very good jobs to join Grenadier and who are now redundant.

Good afternoon Mr Hocevar,

Some of our community members form South Australia have beed discussing the recent news about Adelaide Motors Group.
Understandably this puts some existing and prospective owners in a bit of a bind with regards to purchasing, ongoing servicing, warranty repairs and not least of all the confidence that INEOS Automotive can cover such a large portion of Australia effectively as a Manufacturer. People are now facing 1500km + for routine servicing with the added cost that this entails.
Is there anything you can add to this news with regards to the appointment of a replacement sales and service agent and or some other interim provision until a new agent is chosen.


Apologies for the cold intro from myself and the forum, we truly appreciate the enthusiasm of the APAC team and their support of the INEOS clubs and the community in general.



For reference the thread discussing this can be found here.





Kind regards,

Stu Barnes

The above was an email I sent off on the 8’th. Sadly no reply yet.

 

[rovie]

Good afternoon Mr Hocevar,

Some of our community members form South Australia have beed discussing the recent news about Adelaide Motors Group.
Understandably this puts some existing and prospective owners in a bit of a bind with regards to purchasing, ongoing servicing, warranty repairs and not least of all the confidence that INEOS Automotive can cover such a large portion of Australia effectively as a Manufacturer. People are now facing 1500km + for routine servicing with the added cost that this entails.
Is there anything you can add to this news with regards to the appointment of a replacement sales and service agent and or some other interim provision until a new agent is chosen.


Apologies for the cold intro from myself and the forum, we truly appreciate the enthusiasm of the APAC team and their support of the INEOS clubs and the community in general.



For reference the thread discussing this can be found here.





Kind regards,

Stu Barnes

The above was an email I sent off on the 8’th. Sadly no reply yet.

Hi @Stu_Barnes even though I am not personally affected by this, I sympathise with the guys in Australia. I think it's great that you sent this email in their interest.
It's a real shame that you haven't had a reply yet.

 

[Shaky]

And I don’t think Stu will get a reply if I am honest.

What is he/they going to say…yeah you’re right !!

After that I do t think they have got an answer. I also feel that this could be the start of a trend. Pessimistic yes, but my gut feelings are generally right.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Since there were no dealers when many of these vehicles were ordered, other than convenience, Does it really matter?
I'm US based, so I have no dog in the fight down under. But I WAS assigned to a dealership 700 km's, and 8hrs by hwy, away.
I'm still trying to figure out what that means to me.

I never felt the Grenadier concept was supposed to be strong on dealership ties.
Now, because they have been required to create such a very complex vehicle, they have become so.

 

[DaveB]

Good afternoon Mr Hocevar,

Some of our community members form South Australia have beed discussing the recent news about Adelaide Motors Group.
Understandably this puts some existing and prospective owners in a bit of a bind with regards to purchasing, ongoing servicing, warranty repairs and not least of all the confidence that INEOS Automotive can cover such a large portion of Australia effectively as a Manufacturer. People are now facing 1500km + for routine servicing with the added cost that this entails.
Is there anything you can add to this news with regards to the appointment of a replacement sales and service agent and or some other interim provision until a new agent is chosen.


Apologies for the cold intro from myself and the forum, we truly appreciate the enthusiasm of the APAC team and their support of the INEOS clubs and the community in general.



For reference the thread discussing this can be found here.





Kind regards,

Stu Barnes

The above was an email I sent off on the 8’th. Sadly no reply yet.

Shame you didn't spell check it first.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

And I don’t think Stu will get a reply if I am honest.

What is he/they going to say…yeah you’re right !!

After that I do t think they have got an answer. I also feel that this could be the start of a trend. Pessimistic yes, but my gut feelings are generally right.

I’ve heard that there’s going to be an email update about this pretty soon. It will outline a temporary service solution and showroom to existing facilities nearby and also explaining the long term plans and presence in the South Australian market.

If I hear any more confirmed details then I’ll pass these along.

 

[pmatusov]

Back to the Green Oval of discontent for me. At least there are knowledgable specialists who can actually fix those when they break!

I cannot remember a positive Land Rover dealer service experience in the U.S. in the last 25 years.

 

[Zimm]

Since there were no dealers when many of these vehicles were ordered, other than convenience, Does it really matter?

Ahhhhh. Yep? It was worldwide repair centers, easy to fix in the field, with all manuals and open source coding when ordering. 0-3 on that so, I'm guessing having a dealer somewhere on their side of the continent is a minor selling point. I think some dark spots between Dushanbe and Ulaanbaatar were expected so buying one to heard horses in the Gobi was a toss of the dice, but, I'd be a little miffed if I took delivery of a car off of that dealer the day before it was announced.