Build month and delays.....

[rovie]

There almost certainly will be...

View attachment 7794509

I registered for the pickup very early on. But after talking to the product manager, I'm no longer so sure. The very limited load capacity will probably be a problem. He couldn't be persuaded to make a definite statement, but I heard something like 1 to. That would be very little.

 

[IG Pop]

Ouch

Jim Ratcliffe’s attempt to rival Land Rover Defender racks up steep losses

Ineos Automotive’s plans for Grenadier 4x4 hit by global supply chain disruption

www.theguardian.com

 

[DCPU]

That deserves it's own thread...

 

[Ever Pragmatic]

Ouch

Jim Ratcliffe’s attempt to rival Land Rover Defender racks up steep losses

Ineos Automotive’s plans for Grenadier 4x4 hit by global supply chain disruption

www.theguardian.com

This looks like great value as normal product development and associated r&d for a vehicle like this would be £1b +.. Ineos will offset these losses against operating profit elsewhere in their empire.
Its no surprise about component, particularly micro chips. I did read on this forum that the IG uses c 300..

 

[DaveB]

Ouch

Jim Ratcliffe’s attempt to rival Land Rover Defender racks up steep losses

Ineos Automotive’s plans for Grenadier 4x4 hit by global supply chain disruption

www.theguardian.com

That is normal for a new business.
Most of your costs are at the beginning and this is taken into account in the long term business plan.
Provided you have the cash reserves to carry through.
The initial losses also provide tax write-offs and offsets to use against future profits.
This assumes there will be future profits.
That is also part of the plan
When one Ineos company lends another Ineos company money that allows for a double tax saving.

 

[emax]

These figures are fiscal values. Profits and losses are settled on a quarterly basis, and as long as nothing is sold, the losses naturally increase. So this is not a surprise. The supply chain problem is not new, so no breaking news for the current business.

The question is how long this will continue. So if sales really pick up at the end of this year, it will be a "normal" course of business in terms of the global situation.

I'm not worried about much, except that if the contracts don't come in soon, inflation will catch up with us.

 

[DCPU]

So we finally find out what Hambach cost ~ €3.9 million.

Some fire sale!

More here:

HAMBACH PLANT IS ‘GRENADIER READY’ AS INEOS AUTOMOTIVE COMPLETES TRANSITION TO FULLY OPERATIONAL OEM

EMBARGOED UNTIL 00:01 GMT ON 16 FEBRUARY 2022HAMBACH PLANT IS ‘GRENADIER READY’ AS INEOS AUTOMOTIVE COMPLETES TRANSITION TO FULLY OPERATIONAL OEM The first production try-out Grenadiers are rolling off the line at INEOS Automotive’s state-of-the-art Hambach plant in preparation for launch series...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[Spjnr]

Wow the Guardian really is a financial Bible. Who knew a company that's yet to sell a single product is running at a loss in its startup phase.... amazing.

This may be worrying if its parent company wasn't a multi billion pound behemoth

 

[DCPU]

These accounts are only for Ineos Automotive Limited. The company owns 5 subsidiaries. Some of them are selling products or services.

One, Ineos Automotive GmbH, reported profits in the financial year of €1.3m, the other Ineos Automotive SAS will be receiving income from the Merc contract(s) for Smart car assembly and sub assemblies for various Merc vehicles.

 

[DCPU]

This looks like great value as normal product development and associated r&d for a vehicle like this would be £1b +..

The €506m loss is a balance sheet figure.

If you look what Ineos has loaned it's sitting at €944m as at 31st December 2021.

 

[Sam]

Should we be worried…?

 

[Tazzieman]

Should we be worried…?

No

 

[J8hn]

Deliveries delayed until December

 

[JOB]

Deliveries delayed until December

None of us can be surprised. Hopefully positive news in the next fortnight.

 

[prjenns]

Just checked my production slot again and it is now November. So I started with September originally then got delayed into October, now it's supposedly November. Guess i'll just wait until they want my money

Have you received the latest email from Ineos? Earliest UK delivery is now from December 22......!

 

[DedkovCZE]

I get that email too now but some guys got it month ago.

 

[DaveB]

I received the email, which was only uploaded to youtube on 10th October from what I can see.
I take it as very good news.

1. They are starting to build customer cars this month (October)
2. They will only start to deliver customer cars "in earnest" in December. Which means they expect to start delivering them before December in smaller numbers.
3. They have clearly taken on board that the lack of communication is causing a problem as they state on the video and in the email they will be in contact with everyone in two weeks. Not just those with delivery dates coming up.

 

[DCPU]

It's good news in the same way it was when:

1. In July when he said production was "all going well" and "saleable vehicles would be rolling down the line in July" and people would have keys in their hands.

2. In August when he said "up to a month" delay

And now this in October.

There's also mixed messaging regarding delays being due to "parts availability" but then "we don't want to rush it", "we must ensure the very highest quality at every stage of production".

Then we know they're still conducting trials on tooling for the door inserts.

So is it internal issues or external - which one really sits on the critical path?

And yes, it's good to address lack of communication; but it's also very poor/incorrect communication when people are told, for instance, "contracts will be out definitely on 7th October".

So this is his third bite of the cherry; and it seems clear that his July message was so far off the mark, did he actually know what was happening then, and more importantly does he now?

 

[DCPU]

I'm also curious to see the view counts for these videos. Not quite the volume count you'd expect for all the 15,000 plus reservation holders?

Especially, as some of us will have watched them multiple times.

 

[Davman]

That’s a really good point. Check the video they sent to us today regarding the delay - that gives you a good idea of how many people have pre ordered. I watched the video twice - so minus one customer at least.
Close to 3500 views in 18hours.