ASPW about 'catastrophic breakdowns' ...

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
You may or may not like him, but I think this video is interesting.

ASPW discusses the new Land Rover Defender and its siblings vs the 47 year old Range Rover they took along the Canning Stock route. His conclusions are interesting imho and in some ways implicitly shed some light on Grenadier concepts as well.

As usual with ASPW, the video is long. But it's worth seeing from my point of view.

 

stickshifter

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Great video from ASPW. He provides an excellent summary of the rationale for buying a Grenadier. The Grenadier's niche in the 4x4 world is "as simple as possible" - while meeting contemporary safety regulations. Based on this premise, some of the arguments against things like the digital gear shifter might make more sense to some who might be wondering what all the fuss is about (there is a manual lever for the transfer case, a manual lever for the handbrake, but the auto-shifter is one of the "least mechanical" auto-shifters in the market place).

He also makes a good argument about why the Jeep Wrangler Rubicon so great off-road; he cites two things:

(1) Solid axles
(2) The ability to put on really large tires


He left out the fact that Rubicons have a really low geared, low-range, resulting in a crawl ratio of 77:1 or up to 100:1 (depending how you spec your vehicle). In other words, for every full rotation of the tires, the engine crankshaft must rotate 77 times (or up to 100 times). Thus, the ability of the vehicle to crawl up steep slopes, and over rough terrain is magnified, and control is increased. This results in fewer breakages, increased safety, and a whole lot of fun. Likewise, steep descents are controlled by engine-braking, and not brakes applied to the wheels, providing control when otherwise one might lock-up the wheels and slide. As ASPW says, you don't need electronic traction control when you have the right mechanical components (solid axles, low gearing, locking differentials).
 

Tazzieman

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Founding Guard
They call them nanny aids for a reason.
KISS principle is very important in remote areas. You need an option for when things go pear shaped. Better still , keeping it simple reduces the risk of an ASPW "catastrophic failure" and the hypertensive crisis that accompanies one of those :D
 

ECrider

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Good vid from ASPW, I wonder whether he's actually 35 years old but due to complete immersion in every subject he approaches has aged him prematurely. Presume that Mrs. ASPW has banned him from certain day to day tasks like food shopping etc where he'd be videoing his disbelief that he could no longer find a trolley with high profile rubber tyres!
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
I'm assuming his comments about modified new Defenders was in regard to this chap ~ Kingsley Holgate:

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It was quite a claim to make.
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered

There's two issues with this test.

1. He didn't go through the terrain response options to see if they were impacted and there was no testing of the e locking centre or rear diff (although I don't believe he has the rear e diff fitted).

2. He has an early new Defender with a 4x4 drive. Shortly after launch, JLR quietly moved to the AWD system, or Intelligent AWD as JLR called it, which is completely different and runs the system in 2wd as much of the time as it can.

4C3F301F-B300-4FFF-B688-C0042A7C30D9.jpeg

Note that there is now NO centre differential and the front axle is NOT solid as suggested by ASPW, there are more clutches.
 
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DenisM

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
This is a similar setup to my Hyundai Santa Fe diesel "HiTrac" AWD . I'd still prefer the reassurance of full time AWD... which is why I'm looking forward to the IG !
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Though I can't stand this guy, and he was IMHO a bit disrespectful calling ASPW "the 4xoverland guy", he's made a point to which ASPW should react.

> Shortly after launch, JLR quietly moved to the AWD system, or Intelligent AWD as JLR called
> it, which is completely different and runs the system in 2wd as much of the time as it can.


That's indeed a significant difference.

I am curious about whether and what ASPW will answer.
 

DCPU

Active Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Simon is an excellent chap ~ really out there pulling his Defender to bits and videoing for all to learn from. I was really hoping he was going to jump into a Grenadier but signs so far is that he may not. That will be a significant loss to our community.

Whether the actual point ASPW was making with regard to the wheel speed sensor is valid or not, the general point is very applicable. Here is an actual fault with the same AWD system (albeit not reported on a new Defender):

AWD fault reported as " '2 Wheel Drive Only Traction Reduced' message is displayed on the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) and the cause was found to be "A missing cable tie on the transmission electrical wiring harness on All Wheel Drive (AWD) vehicles "resulting in "Transmission Electrical Wiring Harness Chafing on Rear Driveshaft".

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And enough new Defender owners have come to recognise this screen message:

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Shaky

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Simon is an eccentric character but I certainly don’t think he was being disrespectful to ASPW, that‘s just how he is, and he did say Andrew was in another league to himself. He has just answered a question that was posed. The Defender still moves and isn’t stranded.

Would I buy one…no. Would I love to have one as a company car or works vehicle.…Too bloody right I would. I have been in one both on and off road and loved it.

It just boils down to what ASPW says, they are just too complicated and the bills when out of warranty will be horrendous I am sure.

I will be honest, I look for very basic things in a vehicle like that, auto, electric windows, air con, robust, and possibly lockers (not a deal breaker), and that’s it. I am happy.
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Mostly agree, except for owning a Defender. Yes, I'd like to try one, and I am convinced that it's quite comfortable and fancy.

But it is, and I can only repeat this over and over again, not what it claims to be: a Defender.

btw:
> that‘s just how he is

And that's what I don't like about him.
 

Shaky

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
That’s what I am saying emax, I wouldn’t own one either.
But if someone is paying for it and more importantly maintaining it, then I will certainly drive it around and not worry about it.
As ASPW says they are extremely comfortable both on and off road (what I have done).

To confirm I am firmly in ASPW’s camp on this vehicle.
 

Slowveryslow

First Posts
That’s what I am saying emax, I wouldn’t own one either.
But if someone is paying for it and more importantly maintaining it, then I will certainly drive it around and not worry about it.
As ASPW says they are extremely comfortable both on and off road (what I have done).

To confirm I am firmly in ASPW’s camp on this vehicle.
This seems a good review
from Harry Metcalfe …perspective is farmer/car nut
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
A good video, thank you.

As the farmer says, it's for sure a comfortable and off road capable car. But I don't trust all the gadgets and gimmicks it has, in particular not as long as they come from JLR.

When I bought my Mercedes in 2000 it had a lot of things which in that time where simply outstanding (today, they're just normal). I was very amazed of them and thought "wow, this thing is like a space ship".

And it indeed turned out that it actually was like a spaceship - when things started to break: The repair costs seemed to be on NASA level. Luckily I had bought a service contract as well which covered anything except tires, brakes, oil and so on. But all repairs were included. And so it finally summed up to about 10000 Euros within 36 months: An new glass/sliding roof, a completely new front axle (new part number), a new "Comand" system and a bunch of other things.

It was all paid by Mercedes-Benz. But without the contract I'd have had more than half of the cost myself.

In that time I've learned quite a lot of lessons. And they include that
  • everything which is in a car can break.
  • everything which is electronic is particularly expensive to repair
  • every comfortable advantage automatically poses a disadvantage in terms of operating costs and TCO
So it shouldn't come as a surprise that I simply don't trust a new Defender with all its fantastic capabilities. My thinking about durability counts in decades. And that certainly doesn't fit with a new Defender.
 
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Max

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
But it is, and I can only repeat this over and over again, not what it claims to be: a Defender.
I agree, it appears to some that they got a lot of things right, except the name.
 

emax

Prolific Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Is the motorbike in your avatar a Bultaco? T325/350?

Or is it a Yamaha TY?
 
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Max

Contributor
Grenadier Ordered
Is the motorbike in your avatar a Bultaco?
T325/350?
TY250 Yamaha. Mick Andrews helped design and rode to two Scottish Six Day trials championships in 1974 and 75.
Plenty of European influence in the design. Possibly the best of the Japanese at the time but I rode a Suzuki RL250 which I still have that was bought by me in 1973/4. I was riding the TY250 for a dealer ad photo shot...fun when you got it.
 
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