So, knowing what you know, would you buy it again?

[Dokatd]

Would adding a Fox steering stabilizer and adjusting the turn radius stop bolts be considered changes that would void the warranty?

In the US you are ok adding fix stabilizer. But the steering stop adjustment would certainly void some portions of your warranty

 

[scottg]

I'm struggling not to buy another 1924 Belstaff, I have the Inky Black one, but I also want one in Magic Mushroom, so yes, I would buy again.

I'm not a car expert, I'm not an off-roading maniac (well, I did off-road to avoid Florida Highway Patrol in October, but that was a rather tame event, pretty funny), so I don't consider myself qualified to assess the value of it as an off-roader, or does it do what others want kind of thing.

It does what I want. So far no issues, ordered mine in January, picked it up in May this year. 7800 miles on it, oil change at 700, 1500, 3500, soon again, I want it to last and I have time on my hands. Why. Well ...

I had a 2005 4Runner that I'd still be driving today if it hadn't rusted out. I was about to buy a 2024 4Runner as I don't trust the new hybrid that the 4Runner has become. Daughters said don't get one until after you've gotten your Grenadier, you may never drive the 4Runner after that, and they were right I think. Well, before that I was considering the new Land Cruiser, a capable vehicle I'm sure, but again, not trusting the new stuff yet, and with Toyota engines blowing up lately, I think I made the right decision. The new Defenders? Bleh. Fancy looking, but I'm not looking for fancy. I'm looking for analog switches and a real ignition key.

Came across the Grenadier and really struggled with the decision to get my 1924 edition, loved the black and the dark headliner. New company, new vehicle, untested long term, was a real risk, and more expensive than the 4Runner TRD Pro and Land Cruiser. I'd looked a G63s but I don't like them. Then in January I test drove a Grenadier and was sold on it.

Everyone has opinions and we see them here, and I'm not saying anyone should love or hate this vehicle, so the arguing and debates here aren't really relevant in this thread, up to them entirely. What I can say for certain is that there's a quote, I think Thomas Sowell, "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs". I'm willing to trade the risks, the potential front drive shaft issue, and anything else that comes, until I'm not. Until the tradeoffs no longer work for me. So I don't think there's one answer here, a yes or no, I think there's an answer based in a moment in time that's related to enjoyment, bias, financial ability, and more.

I did do research on the B58 engine, other aspects of the Grenadier.

I can only speak for myself. I find reasons to drive this beast. "What?!? We're out of SALT???? That's criminal! I'll be back in an hour!" I don't know why, I can't explain it, but driving the Grenadier is just that much fun for me, and I don't go crazy off-roading. I've driven many other vehicles. I don't know what it is about this driving experience that tops them all, but I'm willing to make the tradeoffs necessary here. And I LIKE how it steers and the steering radius is fine too, give me plausible deniability. "Sorry about that huge dent in the side of your brand new Land Rover, but you know, steering radius! You should have known not to get in my way. FYI I have a bull bar now, so ... and thinking I should Mad Max my rig." That's all in jest. It is possible I just love the Recaro seats and if I could remove one and put it in any other car, an Aztek maybe, I'd be happy as a lark. (More jest probably).

So, I'm sure my HT and LT coolant reservoirs have to be replaced, there are the signs of seepage at the seams and I have had to top off twice since May. Maybe my front driveshaft CV will fail, now I'll be under my Grenadier weekly fretting about it, not sure what I'm looking for as signs of failure.. But - I - don't - care, the tradeoffs are worth it for me now. Fan boy? Sure, whatever. Was called an Apple fan boy by a friend who is now kept at arm's length. Sorry, but Apple h/w is bulletproof, and I take the tradeoffs in that ecosystem where my 2012 MacBook Pro wasn't replaced until 2020 with the new M1. EIGHT YEARS? Yes, and it didn't need replacing, it still ran great, but the M1 was so much faster at startup and everything else.

Anyway, I'm fine with stock tires and all the rest, no intention of going crazy with this rig, and anyone who wants to judge me for not wanting to roll over MOAB, you're clearly a very judgmental person and we can have coffee, but nothing more. If it starts to give me trouble, as in weeks away in maintenance, I'll get a second car (maybe that Magic Mushroom Belstaff!) and that's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

I think the problem with people often is that they have what they'll tradeoff on and spend on, and when anyone who has different tradeoffs or spending choices comes across the radar, the judgements come out. We are all still monkeys, when it comes to our brains, very thin veneer of reason and logic. I count myself among them, as I was the same and can still catch myself at it, but getting much better as I get much older.

/s.

 

[scottg]

In the US you are ok adding fix stabilizer. But the steering stop adjustment would certainly void some portions of your warranty

Thanks for this, was considering it but not sure I need it as I like how it handles, but probably should find someone in my area with those changes and see how it performs and then decide.

 

[Dokatd]

Thanks for this, was considering it but not sure I need it as I like how it handles, but probably should find someone in my area with those changes and see how it performs and then decide.

It truly does transform the truck. You will almost certainly find it even more enjoyable to drive. This is especially true if you find yourself on pavement more often than not.

 

[Slov]

Would adding a Fox steering stabilizer and adjusting the turn radius stop bolts be considered changes that would void the warranty?

From what I understand adjusting the steering stops would void warranty based off my reading. I won’t comment on the steering stabilizer, but hear by many it’s well worth the trade off.

For the boot, from what I understand, it would be pinching or leaking. Here is a new video by Ronny Dahl with his QM showing exactly where on the boot the driveshaft failures are, as he is carrying a spare driveshaft on his adventures. The video time for the drive shaft explanation is 13:22

Video Link

Hope this helps!

 

[abbeyroad]

I'm willing to trade the risks, the potential front drive shaft issue, and anything else that comes, until I'm not. Until the tradeoffs no longer work for me.

This. I have 7K miles on my '24.

Issues/annoyances to date

1. Teapot whistlin' steering pump (absurd)
2. When you turn the wheel left, right, left right at slow speeds it makes a clicking noise (verified on two other new loaners)
3. 3-2 downshift clunk (less so with some miles on it now)
4. Water seepage driver and pass side due to AC condensation (documented with photos)
5. Blew hot twice in full AC cold mode (dealer said must show proof so buy a temp gauge and video it if/when it happens again)
6. Front parking sensor would go on whenever I came to a stop (maybe it's the recent rain or whatever, but it went away on its own)
7. NVH at a stop in traffic in D poor (makes my Bronco Raptor feel serene like a Rolls Royce)

If IA/dealership denies front driveshaft coverage because I'm running 33" tires, I'm jumping ship. If the diff starts leaking repeatedly, I'm out. I can live with #4 and #5 so long as they honor coverage with no added hurdles. I can live with things like expansion tank seepage since this is a known BMW thing (I've owned many M cars bought new).

I adore how it looks, don't mind that it drives like a tank (because it's built like one) and do value IA's boutiquey brand image. I have serious doubts about them lasting beyond this generation without some serious redesign that brings in more female buyers.

Enjoy!

 

[scottg]

From what I understand adjusting the steering stops would void warranty based off my reading. I won’t comment on the steering stabilizer, but hear by many it’s well worth the trade off.

For the boot, from what I understand, it would be pinching or leaking. Here is a new video by Ronny Dahl with his QM showing exactly where on the boot the driveshaft failures are, as he is carrying a spare driveshaft on his adventures. The video time for the drive shaft explanation is 13:22

Video Link

Hope this helps!

Thanks, Slov, and others in various threads for the explanations and pictures. I coincidentally came by Dahl's latest and watched that portion last night. Went under my Grenadier today, first 3 pictures are of the front drive shaft. Mine seems to be in good condition (@ ~8000 mi), but I can see where the boot could be pinched and compromised with articulation. Rear driveshaft looks fine as well.

While underneath I took time to inspect what I could and found some things that look concerning but not sure if any of them seem urgent.

1. Seems I have a cable clip where there is no cable. I'm going to guess that my Belstaff doesn't have some cable that a Trialmaster or other optioned Grenadier would have that would use this clip? (1 picture)

2. The Low Cable from my center diff lock handle to the center diff / transfer case seems to have two points where it was attached, one with a clip that is now loose (2 pictures), a place where it is zip-tied to other plastic parts (1 picture), and the cable is touching the transfer case, though it doesn't appear at risk of hitting the drive shaft (1 picture) -- also in that picture, the yellow item circled on the right side, is that how it is supposed to be connected -- the angle seems not right (1 picture). I have pushed the transfer case into low a few times, it's not easy -- and feels like the front and rear diff locks take a bit to engage and disengage. Should I be deploying all of them at least monthly to get them to be smoother operating?

RESOLUTION: I've ordered the Agile Offroad bracket that allows one to cleanly zip tie the Low Cable where it will not be in danger, though when that bracket arrives I'm going to see if I can attached a metal clip (like that unused clip you see in a prior picture) instead of using a zip tie. If the Low Cable seems properly secured that way that the other zip tie is no longer needed I may remove that zip tie. (Nothing against zip ties.)

3. B58 oil cooler (is that the oil cooler?) appears to have a leak, right at that screw, not dripping down from a higher point, and it isn't leaving spots on my driveway so it's not losing oil, and doesn't appear to be at risk of causing a failure, will have it checked at the 12k mile servicing. Should I check the torque on that screw, and re-torque it? Anyone else had this issue? (1 picture).

A lot of criticisms of INEOS Automotive for many of these things, some of what I see appear to be workarounds or improvements from prior issues. I'll give them leeway given the newness of the vehicle, that we aren't likely to see any new auto manufacturers come into existence ever again -- that we have IA is a surprise -- and how long it took to develop, and I won't complain about the price. No design will be perfect, and can't catch every issue, though I get grumbling about not doing a recall on the front drive shafts. Much appreciate all who are posting here, this has been very helpful, and I will be laying under my Grenadier more often and taking pictures for comparisons over time. I hear Land Rovers are 'worse' breaking down, the difference is that it seems easier to source parts and service for them when they do break. I think if IA focused on getting the manuals accessible (and I'd really like a Chilton book, being online has some advantages but also significant drawbacks) it would help, along with the oil change reset and general improvements on DIY serviceability. And parts availability. But man, I'll sacrifice much of that for some period of time to get IA viable.

(If anyone remarks on how clean the underside of my Grenadier is, I'm an avid on-roader. That's all I have to say. Love on-roading.)

/s.

 

[scottg]

This. I have 7K miles on my '24.

Issues/annoyances to date

1. Teapot whistlin' steering pump (absurd)
2. When you turn the wheel left, right, left right at slow speeds it makes a clicking noise (verified on two other new loaners)
3. 3-2 downshift clunk (less so with some miles on it now)
4. Water seepage driver and pass side due to AC condensation (documented with photos)
5. Blew hot twice in full AC cold mode (dealer said must show proof so buy a temp gauge and video it if/when it happens again)
6. Front parking sensor would go on whenever I came to a stop (maybe it's the recent rain or whatever, but it went away on its own)
7. NVH at a stop in traffic in D poor (makes my Bronco Raptor feel serene like a Rolls Royce)

If IA/dealership denies front driveshaft coverage because I'm running 33" tires, I'm jumping ship. If the diff starts leaking repeatedly, I'm out. I can live with #4 and #5 so long as they honor coverage with no added hurdles. I can live with things like expansion tank seepage since this is a known BMW thing (I've owned many M cars bought new).

I adore how it looks, don't mind that it drives like a tank (because it's built like one) and do value IA's boutiquey brand image. I have serious doubts about them lasting beyond this generation without some serious redesign that brings in more female buyers.

Enjoy!

Mine didn't 'teapot' until recently, so I'm ordering more fluid and going to check the levels, wonder if the PS whine is associated with certain fluid levels. I don't have the clicking noise in steering you describe, wonder if the steering system is hitting on a loose cable or something? Do you feel it through the steering wheel, or is it only audible? 3-2 downshift is still a thing, but seems to be getting better, but not when vehicle is colder, right after startup. Can you post the water seepage photos? I found what looks like a drain pipe under mine, and wonder if your issue is somehow water drainage pipe is disconnected somehow, if that's the same pipe. My front parking sensors have always worked fine, though today I've been getting odd triggering of the front sensors while driving, seems the two inner ones, coincides with my install of the STREK bull bar -- I think the sensors are ultrasonic, wondering if bull bar and other configs on front end cause ultrasonics to distort, inadvertently trigging the alarms. What's NVH? I way be an engineer and worked at NASA, but even there I had to ask about acronyms

Agreed with the last part. I think IA, actually sure of it, has a pure EU cultural feel and they didn't realize early on how the US market is quite different.

/s.

 

[scottg]

From what I understand adjusting the steering stops would void warranty based off my reading. I won’t comment on the steering stabilizer, but hear by many it’s well worth the trade off.

For the boot, from what I understand, it would be pinching or leaking. Here is a new video by Ronny Dahl with his QM showing exactly where on the boot the driveshaft failures are, as he is carrying a spare driveshaft on his adventures. The video time for the drive shaft explanation is 13:22

Video Link

Hope this helps!

Maybe my driving habits are different, I don't mind the steering and non-re-centering thing, and haven't had much trouble with either in town or long distance driving. Only a couple of times I've had to do a 3-point. I can estimate if I can do it and if not, happy to drive on and turn into somewhere, come back on the road. Have you seen those people who are in the far right lane, and stop and park in the middle of oncoming traffic until they can go all the way left to make that left turn they need to make because they didn't realize they needed to be in the far left lane at that time? I always wonder, why can't they just say, hmm, why don't I go up a block or two and re-vector back or via another route to get there? Do I really have to act like an ass and insist I make THIS left turn RIGHT NOW? The reason I am thinking about steering stabilizer and turn radius now is I have rotator cuff surgery in December and me driving this beast as a one-armed man for 2 months may cause mayhem on the DC beltway and in town.

EDIT: More mayhem than there is normally on the DC beltway and DMV area.

/s.

 

[abbeyroad]

Mine didn't 'teapot' until recently, so I'm ordering more fluid and going to check the levels, wonder if the PS whine is associated with certain fluid levels. [AR: Doesn't make a lick of diff]I don't have the clicking noise in steering you describe, wonder if the steering system is hitting on a loose cable or something? Do you feel it through the steering wheel, or is it only audible? [AR: Saw your wheel left and right quickly at parking lot speeds]3-2 downshift is still a thing, but seems to be getting better, but not when vehicle is colder, right after startup. Can you post the water seepage photos?[AR: Sure thing] I found what looks like a drain pipe under mine, and wonder if your issue is somehow water drainage pipe is disconnected somehow, if that's the same pipe. My front parking sensors have always worked fine, though today I've been getting odd triggering of the front sensors while driving, seems the two inner ones, coincides with my install of the STREK bull bar -- I think the sensors are ultrasonic, wondering if bull bar and other configs on front end cause ultrasonics to distort, inadvertently trigging the alarms. [AR: Just happened first time 7K miles, bone stock]What's NVH? [AR: Noise, vibration and harshness] I way be an engineer and worked at NASA, but even there I had to ask about acronyms

 

[LC0013]

Amazing how a simple question simple answer thread turns into a clusterf**k

 

[scottg]

View attachment 7913900View attachment 7913901

So that's not a lot of condensation, telling me that it's either a small leak in the hose or pipe meant to take condensation away, or that condensation is forming on the 'outside' of the system in question, kind of like you have a cold beer or mixed drink with ice in it, and then you get condensation 'outside' of the glass. Waiting on access to the INEOS repair manual online, argh, want to trace this upwards and see where it might be coming from. Has it been raining in your area recently, or is this a constant consistent issue when you use the AC?

 

[scottg]

Amazing how a simple question simple answer thread turns into a clusterf**k

?

 

[abbeyroad]

So that's not a lot of condensation, telling me that it's either a small leak in the hose or pipe meant to take condensation away, or that condensation is forming on the 'outside' of the system in question, kind of like you have a cold beer or mixed drink with ice in it, and then you get condensation 'outside' of the glass. Waiting on access to the INEOS repair manual online, argh, want to trace this upwards and see where it might be coming from. Has it been raining in your area recently, or is this a constant consistent issue when you use the AC?

Happened during a road trip during the Summer. It's a known issue.

 

[abbeyroad]

Amazing how a simple question simple answer thread turns into a clusterf**k

Obrigado, IA.

 

[Slov]

Thanks, Slov, and others in various threads for the explanations and pictures. I coincidentally came by Dahl's latest and watched that portion last night. Went under my Grenadier today, first 3 pictures are of the front drive shaft. Mine seems to be in good condition (@ ~8000 mi), but I can see where the boot could be pinched and compromised with articulation. Rear driveshaft looks fine as well.

While underneath I took time to inspect what I could and found some things that look concerning but not sure if any of them seem urgent.

1. Seems I have a cable clip where there is no cable. I'm going to guess that my Belstaff doesn't have some cable that a Trialmaster or other optioned Grenadier would have that would use this clip? (1 picture)

2. The Low Cable from my center diff lock handle to the center diff / transfer case seems to have two points where it was attached, one with a clip that is now loose (2 pictures), a place where it is zip-tied to other plastic parts (1 picture), and the cable is touching the transfer case, though it doesn't appear at risk of hitting the drive shaft (1 picture) -- also in that picture, the yellow item circled on the right side, is that how it is supposed to be connected -- the angle seems not right (1 picture). I have pushed the transfer case into low a few times, it's not easy -- and feels like the front and rear diff locks take a bit to engage and disengage. Should I be deploying all of them at least monthly to get them to be smoother operating?

RESOLUTION: I've ordered the Agile Offroad bracket that allows one to cleanly zip tie the Low Cable where it will not be in danger, though when that bracket arrives I'm going to see if I can attached a metal clip (like that unused clip you see in a prior picture) instead of using a zip tie. If the Low Cable seems properly secured that way that the other zip tie is no longer needed I may remove that zip tie. (Nothing against zip ties.)

3. B58 oil cooler (is that the oil cooler?) appears to have a leak, right at that screw, not dripping down from a higher point, and it isn't leaving spots on my driveway so it's not losing oil, and doesn't appear to be at risk of causing a failure, will have it checked at the 12k mile servicing. Should I check the torque on that screw, and re-torque it? Anyone else had this issue? (1 picture).

A lot of criticisms of INEOS Automotive for many of these things, some of what I see appear to be workarounds or improvements from prior issues. I'll give them leeway given the newness of the vehicle, that we aren't likely to see any new auto manufacturers come into existence ever again -- that we have IA is a surprise -- and how long it took to develop, and I won't complain about the price. No design will be perfect, and can't catch every issue, though I get grumbling about not doing a recall on the front drive shafts. Much appreciate all who are posting here, this has been very helpful, and I will be laying under my Grenadier more often and taking pictures for comparisons over time. I hear Land Rovers are 'worse' breaking down, the difference is that it seems easier to source parts and service for them when they do break. I think if IA focused on getting the manuals accessible (and I'd really like a Chilton book, being online has some advantages but also significant drawbacks) it would help, along with the oil change reset and general improvements on DIY serviceability. And parts availability. But man, I'll sacrifice much of that for some period of time to get IA viable.

(If anyone remarks on how clean the underside of my Grenadier is, I'm an avid on-roader. That's all I have to say. Love on-roading.)

/s.

Id say I regards to number 2, I don’t see why it wouldn’t hurt to cycle through all the lockers being used on a dirt trail once a month or two, just to ensure things don’t seize up or anything.

I can’t really give any additional input bedside I’m a newbie and waiting on my Grenadier to come in. All I have is online research and want to make that clear. I figured the Ronny Dahl vid would point you in the right direction and I’m glad it did.

I am curious if my cable will come undone. I may order the same bracket you did in the future.

In regards to the stabilizer, I hear it does really help with return to center. It’s not a 100% fix but a significant improvement according to many. It’s a fairly affordable upgrade and is bolt on. So, the worst that happens is you put it on or take it off.

One of the other members, DakotaD I believe, said that it won’t void warranty to bolt that on?