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Press Review - what do you want to see…?

Spjnr

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if anything needs a photo then its a snatch recovery of a tippet in the woods. Don't hold out on us @Spjnr
I'll get one next time! Funnily enough I wasn't quick to get the camera out as was losing day light! 2nd time they've got bogged in as many months... "it looked dry enough"
 

Max

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I can’t wait to see a real unprejudiced comparison between the Grenadier and the new Defender. I was all over the Grenadier since its inception and ordered one early, then ordered a Defender since the lead time for the Grenadier seemed to be ever lengthening. Defender came through first. I still like the looks of the Grenadier and off road it seemed fine to drive but having seen and sat in the production model I’m starting to have doubts. Cramped rear leg room, split rear doors were a bit awkward and, for sure, it’s deliberately utilitarian. But I find the aircraft-style instruments a bit gimmicky. The Defender is, frankly, luxurious and I’m thinking “what’s wrong with a bit of luxury?” As for the figures, on almost every off-road measure - approach/departure angles, wade depth etc, the Defender beats the Grenadier and, with the Grenadier price rises, its looking like there won’t be much between them on price. I didn’t like the new Defender on first sight. Now? I love it. But will the reviews be truly unbiased? I very much doubt it.
A comparison would be almost like chalk and cheese in my opinion...if you have to personally make a comparison about vehicles of today, do it in ten to twenty years time...happy motoring
 
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Tom D

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I can’t wait to see a real unprejudiced comparison between the Grenadier and the new Defender. I was all over the Grenadier since its inception and ordered one early, then ordered a Defender since the lead time for the Grenadier seemed to be ever lengthening. Defender came through first. I still like the looks of the Grenadier and off road it seemed fine to drive but having seen and sat in the production model I’m starting to have doubts. Cramped rear leg room, split rear doors were a bit awkward and, for sure, it’s deliberately utilitarian. But I find the aircraft-style instruments a bit gimmicky. The Defender is, frankly, luxurious and I’m thinking “what’s wrong with a bit of luxury?” As for the figures, on almost every off-road measure - approach/departure angles, wade depth etc, the Defender beats the Grenadier and, with the Grenadier price rises, its looking like there won’t be much between them on price. I didn’t like the new Defender on first sight. Now? I love it. But will the reviews be truly unbiased? I very much doubt it.
I agree with some of what you say, but you don’t mention the massive elephant in the room: reliability. I had 3 defender 110’s that were all good, pretty reliable, I took all of them past 150k miles. But the disco3 we had was a liability, one of the nicest cars to drive that I have owned but just too unreliable, and the repair bills for a disco seem to start at £1k and go up from there. I have a lot of friends who drive JLR products, they have all had issues, no one wants to keep one past the warranty period. One mate has a disco 4 that leaks heavily in the rain, like pouring in all over the dash. I have another friend who has just got a new defender SWB commercial, the space in the back is way smaller than you’d think, the internal floor is really high, it has way less space than a small van. He says its nice to drive but so it should be, it was £70k!
IMO the Grenadier is exactly what JLR should have built, and I’m glad that they never sold Sir Jim the plans to the old defender because the Grenadier is better than anything built on that old design could be. And I was a die hard fan of the old defender.
We’ll have to see what reliability is like on the Grenadier, its still an unknown quantity, but the new defender is an known quantity, its JLR. It will be over complicated, you wont be able to fix it yourself and neither will your local mechanic, you’ll have to take it to the golden spanners of your JLR dealer at £100per hour and be prepared to do that quite often.
 

Earthwatcher

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I know a little about unreliability - my first car was an Hillman Imp, got me into a lot of trouble that car, and I was glad to see it towed away. Since then all my cars have been pretty reliable, including a Freelander that gave me four years of happy motoring without a scratch and which would go almost anywhere. The best off-roader I ever had was a four-litre Jeep, brilliant off road with lots of torque but thirsty, had to let it to go when the chassis started to crumble. I’ve run a Porsche Macan for the past five years, not great for off road, too low slung and tyres are too wide but that’s been faultless too. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. At least I know where to take the Defender. Right now I don’t know who can service my Grenadier if it ever arrives. Be assured I’m not trashing the Grenadier, I’m getting one, but I’ve heard people trashing the New Defender who’ve never driven one.
 

Krabby

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Side note - the Jeep 4.0 straight 6 is an epic engine and they were foolish to drop it for the Pentastar V6.
 
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stickshifter

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Side note - the Jeep 4.0 straight 6 is an epic engine and they were foolish to drop it for the Pentastar V6.
Agreed. But even worse, they dropped the 4.0 I6 for the 3.8 V6 - a real pig. I owned one for ten years and - loaded with gear and two people - we couldn't keep up with traffic going up the big mountain passes. The 3.6 replaced the 3.8 and in its current iteration (2108-present) the 3.6 can be fun to drive - if you live at sea level. Its definitely lacking in low-end torque for its application (an off-road vehicle), but low-range is so low in the Rubicon it makes up for the lack of engine torque. But in high range, the 3.6 just isn't a Jeep or truck engine. At elevation, that becomes even more pronounced. Here's hoping that the new turbo-charged 3.0 I6 makes its way into the Wrangler and Gladiator!
 

Tom D

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I know a little about unreliability - my first car was an Hillman Imp, got me into a lot of trouble that car, and I was glad to see it towed away. Since then all my cars have been pretty reliable, including a Freelander that gave me four years of happy motoring without a scratch and which would go almost anywhere. The best off-roader I ever had was a four-litre Jeep, brilliant off road with lots of torque but thirsty, had to let it to go when the chassis started to crumble. I’ve run a Porsche Macan for the past five years, not great for off road, too low slung and tyres are too wide but that’s been faultless too. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. At least I know where to take the Defender. Right now I don’t know who can service my Grenadier if it ever arrives. Be assured I’m not trashing the Grenadier, I’m getting one, but I’ve heard people trashing the New Defender who’ve never driven one.
I had a freelander 2 too, that was a great car, sold it to get the disco as we wanted 7 seats.. I liked the freelander2 a lot. I think as a replacement for a freelander or disco the new defender would be great. But as a replacement for the old defender its a no from me. I had planned to wait for the new defender and get one as soon as it came out, but as soon as I saw the specs and the vehicle I knew it wasn’t for me. One of the other things about the old defender was that it could wear a lot of battle scars and still hold its value like few other cars can. I suspect the Grenadier will be similar, in 10 years time there will probably be a grenadier floor price that will be more related to mileage than bodywork condition, another plus if thats the case.
 

Krabby

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As someone who coveted a proper Defender, I was bummed when they were discontinued. I believe they only legally imported them into the US in 94, 95, & 97 and by the time I could buy one, around 2001, they were a fortune. Even for banged up, high mileage examples.

When images of the D100 concept started to be shown, I was not a fan. But with word the new defender would come Stateside, I had hoped the final product would be more proper Land Rover and less of what the Range Rover brand has become. Nope.

But, when I first heard about Sir Jim’s endeavor, I was immediately excited. When I finally decided to share with my wife, I was surprised how quickly she was on board with laying down a reservation and ultimately buying a new Gren. She even described it before me - it’s like a real, modern, proper Defender. I think many LR guys were hoping all along that LRs own offering would be what the Gren is. Thankfully it exists, regardless of the badge, and with well-established partners like BMW, ZF, etc on board, it’ll be better built than any JLR product.
 

G-Man

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I share Ever_Pragmatic and bigleonski's interest in wanting to know how the Grenadier handles on-road. And I don't think it makes sense to tell someone who wants to know how it drives on-road to "buy a Porsche". That notion is based on a false dichotomy - that there are two types of vehicles in the world: ones that are good off-road but crap on the highway, and sports cars. If you are okay spending $70-80,000 for an off-road vehicle that is terrible on-road, well, that's you. I think most people spending that kind of money expect the Grenadier to be "relatively good" on the road. What does "relatively good" mean? To me - at a minimum - it means better acceleration and handling than a 3.6 liter Jeep Wrangler (which is a relevant comparison given that both are solid axle-vehicles).

I don't expect the Grenadier to handle as precisely as an SUV with independent front suspension, but I also won't tolerate spending this kind of money for one that wanders all over the highway, and that bump-steers. I'm not suggesting that the Grenadier will wander on the highway - rather, I'm saying that a person is justified in wanting to know whether it does or does not.

I don't expect the Grenadier to accelerate like a sport SUV - because I'm not buying a sport SUV - but I also won't spend my money on a vehicle that can't perform on the roads that I drive with - what to me - is adequate power. I'm not suggesting the Grenadier lacks adequate power - rather, I'm saying that a person is justified in wanting to know whether it does or does not.

Please folks - stop telling us to "Buy a Porsche" if we want to know how it drives on road - just accept that not everyone shares your low expectations 😁

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I owned an early model JL Wrangler Rubicon and it drove like a ride on mower. Fine if you're doing most of your road miles on broad highways but 🤬 nerve wracking on narrow and twisty British country roads where the speed limit is still 60mph and every following driver expects you to keep up with modern traffic in your shiny new Jeep! It was the most miserable 18 months of 4x4 ownership I've ever experienced, having a vehicle that looked sensational but tried to kill you the instant your concentration wavered. After a long journey I used to get out of the beast looking ten years older 😆

I don't expect sports car handling but I am looking forward to reports that it is at least safe and reassuring at cruising speeds on the bitumen.
 

Stu_Barnes

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I know a little about unreliability - my first car was an Hillman Imp, got me into a lot of trouble that car, and I was glad to see it towed away. Since then all my cars have been pretty reliable, including a Freelander that gave me four years of happy motoring without a scratch and which would go almost anywhere. The best off-roader I ever had was a four-litre Jeep, brilliant off road with lots of torque but thirsty, had to let it to go when the chassis started to crumble. I’ve run a Porsche Macan for the past five years, not great for off road, too low slung and tyres are too wide but that’s been faultless too. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. At least I know where to take the Defender. Right now I don’t know who can service my Grenadier if it ever arrives. Be assured I’m not trashing the Grenadier, I’m getting one, but I’ve heard people trashing the New Defender who’ve never driven one.
We had an Imp when I was a kid, somebody signed it over to my dad when they couldn't pay their bill in our pub. Cheap car or expensive bill I'm not sure. That mighty beast died when a horse got spooked and kicked in the rear window and battered a load of panels, oh the joys of being raised in rural South Wales. I love my LR4 but bits just keep failing, and I keep replacing, the next owner will get a sorted out LR4 with the virtually impossible to get prospeed rack and ladder (at least in North America)...

But as far as press reviews go, I'd like to see the 'normal' motoring press' opinion of its on-road character and what they can compare it to, their opinion of the off-road chops of the Grenadier is not too important to me, and they're probably not too qualified to comment very deeply, I'm assuming. I also want to see the off-road press' opinion of it off-road, conversely their opinion of on-road is not important either to me, then finally I'd like to see the farm press and caravan press talk about towing.

So all in all not too much to ask for.
 

Earthwatcher

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One of the other things about the old defender was that it could wear a lot of battle scars and still hold its value like few other cars can. I suspect the Grenadier will be similar, in 10 years time there will probably be a grenadier floor price that will be more related to mileage than bodywork condition, another plus if thats the case.
Yes, there's a lot to be said for that, it didn't seem to matter if the old Defender was a bit lumpy in places. I am sick and fed up of tyre kickers coming to look at the five or six year old car you may be selling and expecting something in showroom condition. Having said that, the Grenadier body work is pretty shiny. Will it be as roughty tufty as the old defender? I hope so.
 

DCPU

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But as far as press reviews go, I'd like to see the 'normal' motoring press' opinion of its on-road character and what they can compare it to

I might be cynical but I have low expectations:
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Shameless...
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Say what you like about the likes of TFL, but they don't sit in the pockets of the major manufacturers like some do.
 

Jean Mercier

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I might be cynical but I have low expectations:

Say what you like about the likes of TFL, but they don't sit in the pockets of the major manufacturers like some do.
I don't see any difference between the two cars, the only f*cking "undifference": I will never buy any of those. Old Defender, OK, elder Toyota Landcruisers OK, Mitsubishi Pajero or Montero OK, Suzuki Jimny OK, Grenadier OK :love:
 

Krabby

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I don't see any difference between the two cars, the only f*cking "undifference": I will never buy any of those. Old Defender, OK, elder Toyota Landcruisers OK, Mitsubishi Pajero or Montero OK, Suzuki Jimny OK, Grenadier OK :love:
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