New Dirtbox Overland video I think is really interesting

[Ragman]

Ran across this one and I think it is really a good video.

View: https://youtu.be/P41pZAX70U4?si=_ZMGOU-6zvnHa1Gf

 

[AZGrenadier]

I agree, best video on the Grenny yet. People are finally digging into it.

 

[MileHigh]

Came here to post this. He goes under and goes part by part and points out really interesting details. I don't know 4x4 design/engineering, but he seems to and likes what he sees.

It seems that most everything is well to almost over-engineered, with good planning for adding things like skid plates.

With all that, it makes me wonder even more why they went with the transmission version that they did, especially for the gas version. I forget the exact details, but even just using the transmission from the diesel version would have been a seemingling easy mod.

He says 'Beefy' more times than a Rosie O'Donnel fan club chat.

 

[DaBull]

Came here to post this. He goes under and goes part by part and points out really interesting details. I don't know 4x4 design/engineering, but he seems to and likes what he sees.

It seems that most everything is well to almost over-engineered, with good planning for adding things like skid plates.

With all that, it makes me wonder even more why they went with the transmission version that they did, especially for the gas version. I forget the exact details, but even just using the transmission from the diesel version would have been a seemingling easy mod.

He says 'Beefy' more times than a Rosie O'Donnel fan club chat.

It would be interesting to see if there is just one or two items in the petrol ZF transmission that could be changed to up it's torque maximum and a remap or if one could swap out to a diesel version of the transmission and do a remap. I have to think there much not be too much difference between the two transmissions that someone will come up with a way to get the torque up on the petrol version. Perhaps the ZF petrol trans can take a lot more torque than advertised just like the B58 engine can. DaBull

 

[MileHigh]

It would be interesting to see if there is just one or two items in the petrol ZF transmission that could be changed to up it's torque maximum and a remap or if one could swap out to a diesel version of the transmission and do a remap. I have to think there much not be too much difference between the two transmissions that someone will come up with a way to get the torque up on the petrol version. Perhaps the ZF petrol trans can take a lot more torque than advertised just like the B58 engine can. DaBull

My understanding of ZF transmissions comes from Wikipedia, and it was months ago when I delved into this, but IIRC, similar engines (jeep JKL) have higher rated transmission versions. My guess is that the engine/combo is what BMW was willing to sell to '3rd parties', which is why the exact combo (different tuning) is in the Toyota Supra. People have mentioned that the shifter is BMW OE because to recertify any changes would be expensive. Maybe it will be fine, It just seems really apparent from this video that a lot of thought and engineering went into the vehicle, but we have a Toyota Supra engine in it.

From the video he mentions that the transmission and even the transfer case are cooled, which is unusual. Maybe that is make the overall system more robust. I doubt that we will get another gas engine version here before the greenies force us into an EV or a 3 cyclinder engine- so this is the 'best' we'll get. Until someone puts an LS engine in there...

 

[bbq4133]

My understanding of ZF transmissions comes from Wikipedia, and it was months ago when I delved into this, but IIRC, similar engines (jeep JKL) have higher rated transmission versions. My guess is that the engine/combo is what BMW was willing to sell to '3rd parties', which is why the exact combo (different tuning) is in the Toyota Supra. People have mentioned that the shifter is BMW OE because to recertify any changes would be expensive. Maybe it will be fine, It just seems really apparent from this video that a lot of thought and engineering went into the vehicle, but we have a Toyota Supra engine in it.

From the video he mentions that the transmission and even the transfer case are cooled, which is unusual. Maybe that is make the overall system more robust. I doubt that we will get another gas engine version here before the greenies force us into an EV or a 3 cyclinder engine- so this is the 'best' we'll get. Until someone puts an LS engine in there...

I don't really think there's any issue with it having the powertrain from the Toyota Supra, is there?

 

[Fab]

Ran across this one and I think it is really a good video.

View: https://youtu.be/P41pZAX70U4?si=_ZMGOU-6zvnHa1Gf

Thanx, that's a video I have been waiting for.

 

[AZGrenadier]

I don't really think there's any issue with it having the powertrain from the Toyota Supra, is there?

Not from the reviews of that powertrain. All sorts of vehicles share drivetrains with different tunes. Would it be OK if this engine first started in the Grenadier and then showed up in the Supra and half the BMWs? I would be willing to bet everyone would complain that those performance cars were getting a truck engine.

 

[bbq4133]

Not from the reviews of that powertrain. All sorts of vehicles share drivetrains with different tunes. Would it be OK if this engine first started in the Grenadier and then showed up in the Supra and half the BMWs? I would be willing to bet everyone would complain that those performance cars were getting a truck engine.

Yeah I looked at this as nothing but a positive--reliable powertrain, downtuned for reliability and low end torque. I don't need gobs of power--I had a Raptor, that power is not nearly as usable in these vehicles as it otherwise appears to be, unless you're really into highway drag racing.

 

[DaBull]

My understanding of ZF transmissions comes from Wikipedia, and it was months ago when I delved into this, but IIRC, similar engines (jeep JKL) have higher rated transmission versions. My guess is that the engine/combo is what BMW was willing to sell to '3rd parties', which is why the exact combo (different tuning) is in the Toyota Supra. People have mentioned that the shifter is BMW OE because to recertify any changes would be expensive. Maybe it will be fine, It just seems really apparent from this video that a lot of thought and engineering went into the vehicle, but we have a Toyota Supra engine in it.

From the video he mentions that the transmission and even the transfer case are cooled, which is unusual. Maybe that is make the overall system more robust. I doubt that we will get another gas engine version here before the greenies force us into an EV or a 3 cyclinder engine- so this is the 'best' we'll get. Until someone puts an LS engine in there...

Hi MileHigh, I have a feeling that the petrol transmission is a lot more robust than we are being told. I just don't get why they would keep the torque so low on the petrol version when it is so much higher in the diesel. If we have the same petrol transmission as the Toyota Supra, then it is likely a lot more robust than we are thinking as the tuners have upped the horse power and torque a lot without having to do any modifications to the transmission. At some point when they are really pushing the horse power and torque really high, they are then making changes to the transmission to handle the extra torque. Guess we need to speak to some knowledgeable Toyota Supra Tuners. DaBull

 

[[ Adam ]]

With all that, it makes me wonder even more why they went with the transmission version that they did, especially for the gas version.

I can only assume it was done for cost savings reasons. Unfortunate, as it severely limits the upward bounds of engine tuning.

 

[ADVAW8S]

Grabbed this off a Supra thread back in 2019 when ppl were preparing for the Supra launch.


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B58 6-Cyl Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain, Bolt-Ons
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Thread starterT56283 Start dateJan 19, 2019 Watchers6
T56283
T56283
Jan 19, 2019
#1
I'm not finding a lot yet on the specifics of this new transmission and what sort of horsepower and toque limits it might have. I think the B58 variant going in the new Supra will be a solid motor but I'm not finding the same wealth of information on the transmission but maybe someone here knows more.
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Last edited: Jan 19, 2019
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kona61
kona61
Jan 19, 2019
#2
T56283 said:
I'm not finding a lot yet on the specifics of this new transmission and what sort of horsepower and toque limits it might have. I think the B58 variant going in the new Supra will be a solid motor but I'm not finding the same wealth of information on the transmission but maybe somewhere here knows more.
It is a Zf8HP. Probably the most ubiquitous transmission in the world. It’s tough, but it depends on which variant is being used in the car.

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Guff
Guff
Staff member Moderator
Jan 19, 2019
#3
The Supra should be using the latest revision of the ZF 8HP50, which is technically the version that is rated to 500NM of torque, which is (suprise, surprise) 369lbft of torque, aka the exact number that the B58 is rated to lol. Does that mean that the trans will explode on a cool day when the engine makes 370lbft? No, of course not, the ratings themselves are somewhat arbitrary at this point and are used to distinguish between the model ranges.

I have read that the code on the Supra trans is 8HP51, which might signify the revision model, but I'm not sure. Either way, it's a torque converter automatic, so it should do fine with a little power bump. Other BMW guys seem to be pushing 400-430lbft through their cars with a TCU flash to boost line pressure, and nobody has had issues yet. The 8HP is a fairly modular design so I'm sure there will be a relatively straightforward upgrade path for it as well.

 

[NQ94]

Part 2 the best technical Grenadier review so far. We don't have a dealer close to us or any Grenadiers at a dealer or in the region to look at on a hoist. Most salesman generally have little understanding of the real technical detail. Looking at the rear hub didn't expect it to have a full floating rear axle which is going to be a good detail on a Quartermaster. Most people the interior, looks and driving experience is the most important aspect of a car, for me technical detail is important because I am likely going to have to do most of the service and repairs at work or in my workshop due to location.

 

[NQ94]

I can only assume it was done for cost savings reasons. Unfortunate, as it severely limits the upward bounds of engine tuning.

The smaller transmission fitted to the petrol /gas version is an attempt to lower emissions and reduce fuel consumption over cost. Less rotating internal mass and drag. The diesel 8HP should be an easy conversion for those wanting to make a high performance Grenadier or other options there are plenty of companies now making heavy duty internals to strengthen most 8HP variants. The ZF 8HP has a large following in the performance industry.

 

[Tazzieman]

The figure that is clickbait for the Supra is 1000hp
Torque 900 ft/lb
The Supra transmission is not automatic is it?
Nobody has said how long that tuned Supra has lasted/will last!
The transmission in the petrol Grenadier is rated at 550Nm max. It cops 450Nm because it's going to see some heavy use (will get hot etc). Well maybe not in the mall carwler versions.
Yes there are variants of transmissions for other engines - and companies willing to take $$$ money for modified/stronger versions.

This has been discussed previously on this forum

Petrol/Gas - Un-detuning the engine

If you start to tune the B58….just know that the gearbox might fail eventually if the tune goes over the rated torque And if you leave the cuddly bosom of the city and run low on fuel , and 91 octane from someone's old chainsaw allocation stands between you and survival...

www.theineosforum.com

 

[cheeters]

Ran across this one and I think it is really a good video.

View: https://youtu.be/P41pZAX70U4?si=_ZMGOU-6zvnHa1Gf

Here part1 as well..
Dirtbox Overland

View: https://youtu.be/HLzgLoJ0MAE?si=tCAPMP060m1gF62T

 

[255/85]

There has been some mention in the BMW arena that the 8HP51 is somewhat under-rated and can handle modest B58 engine upgrades. If shooting for big HP numbers there are companies upgrading the torque handling capacity. Most are aimed at racing with the improvements geared toward high RPM launches and the like. Here's a couple.

Toyota Supra MKV A90 Z8HP51

Toyota Supra MKV A90

www.jackstransmissions.com

Drag 750 Build Service – 8HP51 / 8HP45

Drag 750 Build Service – 8HP51 / 8HP45

www.jackstransmissions.com

Using the stock torque converter...

Supra A90 A91 Transmission Upgrade ZF 8HP51 Stage 1 Transmission Rebui

***Freight cost not included in price and varies by location. We will reach out to coordinate shipping freight cost. *** Features: Billet Clutch Hub Upgraded Clutches and Steels Throughout Entire Transmission Upgraded Clutch Pack for Clutch C Upgraded Clutch Pack for Clutch E Upgraded Clutch...

speedlogicauto.com

Stage 3 will set you back $15K on this one...

ZF 8HP51 Transmission Upgrade — Pure Drivetrain Solutions

Our rebuild focuses on fortifying the overall holding power and reliability of your transmission. Through modifications and replacement of oem parts to our own billet parts we are able to achieve the highest clutch counts currently available on the market and the most holding power possible. With ea

www.puredrivetrainsolutions.com

I don't know what the long term durability would really be with these rebuilds. When you start altering internals you run the risk of not being able to find the correct parts down the road when (in this case) the race crowd's taste changes. It might prove easier to swap in the diesel's 8HP7x. I think they've been doing 45/50/51 to 7x/90 transplants in the Mopar community for a while but I haven't looked into it.