New Defender vs Ineos Grenadier

[JonSutton]

IMO the two vehicles are chalk and cheese. The ND is very complex and very much a ‘JLR family‘ styled vehicle. Really comfy, drives well but seems to have mixed reliability. Often a bit blingy. I also thought it was noisy on the road for what is a styled ‘Range Rover’ costing close to £80k for a reasonably standard 110 with the 3 litre diesel engine.
IG looks well thought out, well engineered and well built (based on a close look at a pre-pro). Certainly much better assembled than a 110 near the end of production and I bet it doesn’t leak water into the passenger compartment. I’ve only had one Landie that didn’t leak at that‘s an L405.
I am biased, bought my first LR in 1978, not been without one since but they’ve moved too far upmarket for me now and IMO they were well out order taking Ineos on about TM given where the 80” came from.
Looking forward to taking delivery of our IG before summer 23.

 

[DaveB]

New Defender or old JLR group will probably go from being Indian owned to Chinese owned soon or doors will close
I certainly wouldn't be buying one now
Jaguar Land Rover is in dire straits and needs much bigger sales and a massive electrification budget to compete against Europe’s premium auto market leaders like BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Given that neither is very likely, the quicker it picks a partner or succumbs to a takeover, the sooner it can breathe easy. “JLR has a total of 14 models with just 300,000 sales or around 21,500 sales per model line. You can only restructure and that means radical cuts or the sale of JLR. And the selling price should be very, very low,” Dudenhoeffer said in an interview

 

[Steveo]

New Defender or old JLR group will probably go from being Indian owned to Chinese owned soon or doors will close
I certainly wouldn't be buying one now
Jaguar Land Rover is in dire straits and needs much bigger sales and a massive electrification budget to compete against Europe’s premium auto market leaders like BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Given that neither is very likely, the quicker it picks a partner or succumbs to a takeover, the sooner it can breathe easy. “JLR has a total of 14 models with just 300,000 sales or around 21,500 sales per model line. You can only restructure and that means radical cuts or the sale of JLR. And the selling price should be very, very low,” Dudenhoeffer said in an interview

Yes, will probably go the way of MG - the only remnant of the original marque is the badge.

 

[Max]

New Defender or old JLR group will probably go from being Indian owned to Chinese owned soon or doors will close
I certainly wouldn't be buying one now
Jaguar Land Rover is in dire straits and needs much bigger sales and a massive electrification budget to compete against Europe’s premium auto market leaders like BMW, Mercedes and Audi. Given that neither is very likely, the quicker it picks a partner or succumbs to a takeover, the sooner it can breathe easy. “JLR has a total of 14 models with just 300,000 sales or around 21,500 sales per model line. You can only restructure and that means radical cuts or the sale of JLR. And the selling price should be very, very low,” Dudenhoeffer said in an interview

No Heritage at all...Ineos Grenadier has international Heritage before one hits the road...WOW

 

[John Fish]

I have a 2020 Defender 110 First Edition (according to dealer the first sold in Texas) with 35k miles. It is an awesome car however I am looking forward to the Grenadier. The Defender is great, just a different flavor than the Grenadier. It's very capable offroad and very comfortable on long trips. It rides good, is surprisingly quiet and has been reliable. So why am I looking forward to getting a Grenadier? Time for a change. The Grenadier is a little more rough and it looks better IMO. The new Defender is like half way between a Discovery and a Defender IMO whereas the Grenadier is like a replacement for the old Defender. There is no bad choice.

 

[DDG]

OOF

this thread title goes straight for the jugular

Does anyone on here have a ND and swopping for IG?

I test-drove and ordered a ND - a lovely (luxury) car - but then all the tech and impracticalities started to nag at me. I realised the old Defender was Land Rovers’ last word on spirited utilitarianism, and the IG was the New Defender that LR refused to make.

I ordered a new Defender when they were first announced. As a North American my only relationship with the series Land Rovers and NAS Defenders was a romantic notion and no hands on. I upgraded my order to the 110 V8 when it was announced and then waited forever. Meanwhile I bought a 2019 G550 (G500 to the rest of the world). So once my Grenadier arrive in 2024, I will have my own test fleet of off roaders. So far, I wouldn’t want to have to give up either the G wagon or the Defender. I understand the criticisms of each, but they are also sublime in their own ways. Once I can do a three way comparison of the G wagon, new Defender, Grenadier, I will force myself to rank them but I don’t plan to part with any of them.

 

[Nocrays]

I have an OD and swopping for IG...

Has been my daily drive for last 10 years.

Looked at the new Defender but knew from the start that it would be a backwards step for me.

Ditto.

22 years in my current OD as a daily drive. But I’ll be keeping OD and giving it a birthday!

The IG is perfect for what I’m after. A modernised DefenderWith the same practicalities.

 

[Sam]

Wonderful for those who are resourced to enjoy both, or even 3 (or 4) similar cars ... but it's cheating! The title says "New Defender vs. Ineos Grenadier", not "New Defender and Ineos Grenadier (and G Wagon, etc.)"

However, these people are very well placed to make comparisons, so good on ya.

For me, I got time/space/money for one car in the garage, and i'm moving from a 110 of the last 12 years, to the IG - "The Defender, Fixed".

 

[ADVAW8S]

I have ND MY 20, custom spec. P300 with 4 banger. No issues after 23k miles. Spec it with rear diff, 18 inch wheels and limited the electric gadgets where I could and no sunroof. It is not show pony and dents to prove it. Two weeks ago the ice storm that hit Seattle had my 70-year-old mother trapped at a VBRO. It took all the electronic trickery for me to make my way 3 miles up and down to where she was staying. Not many cars would have accomplished what this thing was able to do from low traction launch on an ice hill to HDC to get us back home. With that said, the Defender goes to my wife, the Grenadier comes to me.

 

[BMW.Leo]

My plan. The Grenadier is coming in the next few weeks. Then my Defender 300 tdi goes into restoration (new chassis etc.) In the summer or autumn, when he is back, the Grenadier will be sold. Of course with profit. And when it's cold in the winter, I drive my Scoda.

I guess if you have your Grenadier and drive few weeks your plan will change, I’m sure IG will stay

 

[Nocrays]

I have ND MY 20, custom spec. P300 with 4 banger. No issues after 23k miles. Spec it with rear diff, 18 inch wheels and limited the electric gadgets where I could and no sunroof. It is not show pony and dents to prove it. Two weeks ago the ice storm that hit Seattle had my 70-year-old mother trapped at a VBRO. It took all the electronic trickery for me to make my way 3 miles up and down to where she was staying. Not many cars would have accomplished what this thing was able to do from low traction launch on an ice hill to HDC to get us back home. With that said, the Defender goes to my wife, the Grenadier comes to me.

Haha. No way my wife would take the defender. She hates it with a passion !!

But I’ll keep it as long as I can, it’s a great bush vehicle.

 

[To]

Haha. No way my wife would take the defender. She hates it with a passion !!

But I’ll keep it as long as I can, it’s a great bush vehicle.

The Defender and I have been welded together for 470,000 km. We have experienced a lot, he has earned money for me (also cost a lot, because he doesn't has hardly any original parts), was always ready for use and has never let me down except once (Gearbox). When I start it in the morning after 25 years and we leave for work, I still have a lot of fun. But I will definitely appreciate the heater on the Grenadier because the Defender doesn't have one of those, at least in the cold winter. It's a 90 soft top. Yeah, it’s a great bush vehicle. That is really correct.

I guess if you have your Grenadier and drive few weeks your plan will change, I’m sure IG will stay

So, we will wait and see.

 

[DCPU]

IMO the two vehicles are chalk and cheese. The ND is very complex and very much a ‘JLR family‘ styled vehicle.

Or to quote Anthony Battle, JLR’s new chief digital officer, JLR is:

"now “a tech company” offering “digital experiences” to customers, such as personalised playlists on the stereo. “We can call them cars, or we can call them laptops on wheels,” he said."

JLR skids on the road to an electric future

Britain’s biggest car maker is battling a chip shortage and racing to go electric, as a pressing deadline looms

www.thetimes.co.uk

 

[Nocrays]

The Defender and I have been welded together for 470,000 km. We have experienced a lot, he has earned money for me (also cost a lot, because he doesn't has hardly any original parts), was always ready for use and has never let me down except once (Gearbox). When I start it in the morning after 25 years and we leave for work, I still have a lot of fun. But I will definitely appreciate the heater on the Grenadier because the Defender doesn't have one of those, at least in the cold winter. It's a 90 soft top. Yeah, it’s a great bush vehicle. That is really correct.

So, we will wait and s

The Defender and I have been welded together for 470,000 km. We have experienced a lot, he has earned money for me (also cost a lot, because he doesn't has hardly any original parts), was always ready for use and has never let me down except once (Gearbox). When I start it in the morning after 25 years and we leave for work, I still have a lot of fun. But I will definitely appreciate the heater on the Grenadier because the Defender doesn't have one of those, at least in the cold winter. It's a 90 soft top. Yeah, it’s a great bush vehicle. That is really correct.

So, we will wait and see.

Two things I won’t miss.(hopefully)

1. A vehicle that leaks like a sieve when it rains, and

2. An air conditioner that is not an afterthought.

 

[To]

Two things I won’t miss.(hopefully)

1. A vehicle that leaks like a sieve when it rains, and

2. An air conditioner that is not an afterthought.

English car manufacturing has put emphasis on more important things.

 

[Tazzieman]

English car manufacturing has put emphasis on more important things.

Oil leaks that double as corrosion inhibitors

 

[Krabby]

English car manufacturing has put emphasis on more important things.

Built in oxidation algorithm that gradually lightens the chassis.

 

[globalgregors]

Or to quote Anthony Battle, JLR’s new chief digital officer, JLR is:

"now “a tech company” offering “digital experiences” to customers, such as personalised playlists on the stereo. “We can call them cars, or we can call them laptops on wheels,” he said."

JLR skids on the road to an electric future

Britain’s biggest car maker is battling a chip shortage and racing to go electric, as a pressing deadline looms

www.thetimes.co.uk

Can’t access the article, meh.

JLR under Tata always appears derivative and contrived. Bigger issue is that so far the car-as-device strategy looks to be DoA (in automotive) after 20+ years of trying. BMW’s efforts - way more thought out - have not led to transformation, and the market has grown sceptical about Tesla, the high water mark for this concept, apparently now re-pricing it as an automotive (rather than a technology) company, with the Chief Twit’s personal value in freefall as a result.

I quote a senior military figure: “Come on people, can we at least try to be a little less shit?”.

 

[Earthwatcher]

Does anyone on here have a ND and swopping for IG?

I have a new Defender and love it. I was thinking of cancelling my Grenadier order to allow us to run a smaller car alongside, like a Yeti or Golf maybe, but I’ve decided to stick with the order and to run the Grenadier alongside the Defender. My only other thought a while back was to get a second hand Discovery 4 but finding a good one wasn’t easy. I’ve been blown away by the Defender’s ease of driving and the seating position is brilliant. I had it up on Salisbury plain yesterday in some really tough off road tracks and it coped with everything easily. A lot of my off-roading is in Scotland so a lot of motorway to be covered there and back. I want to be sure the Grenadier is comfortable doing that but, as yet, still no opportunity to drive on tarmac. Encouraged by first post in this thread but ultimately we have to pass judgement as individuals. The good thing is that Grenadier has acquired a remarkably loyal following already through testing programme in exciting regions around the world. I can’t judge yet on the basis of a shortish test drive on a pretty tame off-road track. No way will I swap my Defender for a Grenadier. My opinion may change as I drive the Grenadier. But right now the Defender wins out for me.

 

[DCPU]

I have a new Defender and love it.
My opinion may change

Time is what usually changes one's mind about a JLR product, that and an over familiarity with the local main dealer service manager.

Latest customer satisfaction survey:

Suzuki customers are the most satisfied – but Land Rover is bottom of league

The manufacturers’ scores were as follows for January 2023, with their January 2022 score in brackets:

Suzuki: 84.6 (84.0)
Kia: 82.3 (81.7)
Hyundai: 82.2 (81.8)
Audi: 81.7 (80.5)
Mercedes-Benz: 81.5 (79.9)
Seat: 81.5 (76.8)
BMW: 81.2 (83.9)
Toyota: 81.1 (82.0)
Honda: 81.0 (81.5)
Lexus: 81.0 (79.7)
Ford: 80.6 (81.6)
Dacia: 80.3 (83.3)
Volkswagen: 80.1 (79.5)
Tesla: 80.0 (80.1)
Volvo: 79.6 (77.8)
Nissan: 79.2 (84.3)
Skoda UK: 79.0 (85.2)
Peugeot: 79.0 (78.6)
Mazda: 78.8 (80.5)
Jaguar: 78.5 (79.8)
Mitsubishi: 78.3 (75.6)
Mini: 78.3 (78.5)
Fiat: 77.2 (73.5)
Vauxhall: 77.0 (79.2)
Renault: 76.8 (79.0)
Citroen: 76.7 (76.7)
Land Rover: 76.1 (75.4)

Suzuki customers are the most satisfied – but Land Rover is bottom of league – Car Dealer Magazine

Suzuki has been named the best car manufacturer for customer satisfaction in the UK once again – with Land Rover at the bottom of the league table. The

cardealermagazine.co.uk