Kahn!

[Tazzieman]

I’m sorry but that interior is dingo ugly.

It really is hideous , and truly awful. But I have little doubt someone in NA will exceed that , and trim with alligator hide.
And chromed wheels.

 

[[ Adam ]]

The fact is that police are being told to stand down on certain infractions and then when an arrest is made either judges toss the case or prosecutors drop the case...

In just my neighborhood we have many homeless/drug addicts out panhandling and then in the evening they are out checking peoples vehicles. Luckily they aren't breaking windows but even with video surveillance evidence the Police will not make an arrest because the person "left the vehicle unlocked".

Crime is Crime...it does not have to be violent to be unlawful.

As cited, both property and violent crime rates are actually down (significantly). Massachusetts, has significantly lower property crime rates than the average for the rest of the country.

"Massachusetts residents currently enjoy the lowest property crime rate out of all the states in our report. The property crime rate dropped from last year. It came in at 10.4 property crimes per 1,000 residents as opposed to 10.5 the year before."

NY Bodega Owner

In addition you have cases like the Bodega owner in NY who defended himself but faced charges even though the original perpetrator did not...

When victims become the ones being charged then society is lost.

Is there any evidence that this is some sort of trend?

 

[evomind]

Rampant paranoia caused by fear mongering of the conservative party & 24 hour news machine spewing easily regurgitated hyperbole. In my experience, this is especially noticed in rural and aged populations.


View attachment 7845425
Crime in the USA is statistically down significantly (property crime 60+%) over the last 20 years.

View attachment 7845423


See also: Violence and mental illness: an overview
"Members of the public exaggerate both the strength of the association between mental illness and violence and their own personal risk."

What the data says (and doesn’t say) about crime in the United States

The two primary sources of government crime statistics both paint an incomplete picture, though efforts at improvement are underway.

www.pewresearch.org

If you want to call the cops and wait around if some lunatic attacks you, that is your right.
Angus chooses to to exercise his 2nd Amendment right.
I do too.

 

[Loc Nar]

i will only speak for myself…massive amounts of people suffering from various mental illnesses wandering the streets since government abdicated citizen safety by closing institutions rather than reform. Not only that but government is also not enforcing our laws and judicial branches are not providing proper sentences for criminal acts even when found guilty.

Relevant post over in /r/overlanding yesterday (fortunately not sleeping inside at the time):

Some homeless guy lit my truck on fire for no reason

Statistics don't mean anything to someone who is actually victimized, and, no, I'm not saying lethal force should be used to defend property by itself. I am saying, everyone ain't all kumbaya out there.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Relevant post over in /r/overlanding yesterday (fortunately not sleeping inside at the time):

Some homeless guy lit my truck on fire for no reason

You mention that this is relevant, how would a firearm have prevented this fire?
I can only assume that the owner of the vehicle was not present while the fire was being lit.

 

[evomind]

Relevant post over in /r/overlanding yesterday (fortunately not sleeping inside at the time):

Some homeless guy lit my truck on fire for no reason

Statistics don't mean anything to someone who is actually victimized, and, no, I'm not saying lethal force should be used to defend property by itself. I am saying, everyone ain't all kumbaya out there.

It was all de-fund the police until a few lefty politicians got car jacked.
Hilarious.
The current gag is how enforcing the border was "Xenophobic" and Sanctuary Cities were a beautiful thing until they shipped the illegals to those cities.
Now they realize that someone has to pay for housing, medical, food, enforcement, etc....
Yeah, I have guns.

 

[[ Adam ]]

It was all de-fund the police until a few lefty politicians got car jacked.
Hilarious.
The current gag is how enforcing the border was "Xenophobic" and Sanctuary Cities were a beautiful thing until they shipped the illegals to those cities.
Now they realize that someone has to pay for housing, medical, food, enforcement, etc....
Yeah, I have guns.

Crime is really not about the illegal (or legal) immigrants, though they are a regular target of this and similar xenophobic hyperbole.

According to a Cato Institute study:

The results are similar to our other work on illegal immigration and crime in Texas. In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans. The illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 45 percent below that of native‐born Americans in Texas.

Loading…

www.cato.org

I have guns too

 

[Loc Nar]

You mention that this is relevant, how would a firearm have prevented this fire?
I can only assume that the owner of the vehicle was not present while the fire was being lit.

How is it relevant? Hmm, let's see. Angus says there are lots of people roaming the streets with mental illnesses that pose a danger to the public and the government won't do anything to address it. You say property crime rates are down across the country, and that fear of crime is misplaced and hyperbole. Yesterday, this guy posts about a homeless person committing arson by burning his rig to the ground. You're right, I might as well have been talking about Travis and Taylor.

 

[[ Adam ]]

How is it relevant? Hmm, let's see. Angus says there are lots of people roaming the streets with mental illnesses that pose a danger to the public and the government won't do anything to address it. You say property crime rates are down across the country. and that fear of crime is misplaced and hyperbole. Yesterday, this guy posts about a homeless person committing arson by burning his rig to the ground. You're right, I might as well have been talking about Travis and Taylor.

I cited studies based on years of statistics gathered across the country as well as research papers.

You posted a reddit link from a guy in Portland - hardly a trend.

 

[Loc Nar]

I cited studies based on years of statistics gathered across the country as well as research papers.

You posted a reddit link from a guy in Portland - hardly a trend.

Oh, I did not realize one had to establish a statistical trend to make a post relevant to the conversation at hand. My apologies.

 

[evomind]

Crime is really not about the illegal (or legal) immigrants, though they are a regular target of this and similar xenophobic hyperbole.

According to a Cato Institute study:

The results are similar to our other work on illegal immigration and crime in Texas. In 2018, the illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 782 per 100,000 illegal immigrants, 535 per 100,000 legal immigrants, and 1,422 per 100,000 native‐born Americans. The illegal immigrant criminal conviction rate was 45 percent below that of native‐born Americans in Texas.

Loading…

www.cato.org

I have guns too

See, the lefty rebuttal....
I didnt say illegals were the cause of crime (but you can read the news).
YOU made the connection to illegals and crime, not I.
My point was to show how another lefty policy that was forced on everyone and now that funding, budgets, and where to send them runs thin, the ideology is being walked back.
It was actually relevant to the de fund police policy as now they're both being walked back.
Im not going to convince you nor you me.

So, when is your truck due or did you get it already?

 

[[ Adam ]]

See, the lefty rebuttal....
I didnt say illegals were the cause of crime (but you can read the news).
YOU made the connection to illegals and crime, not I.
My point was to show how another lefty policy that was forced on everyone and now that funding, budgets, and where to send them runs thin, the ideology is being walked back.
It was actually relevant to the de fund police policy as now they're both being walked back.
Im not going to convince you nor you me.

So, when is your truck due or did you get it already?

"The Cato Institute is an American libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C."

Mentioning de-fund the police, carjacking and enforcement in the same breath as illegal immigration & sanctuary cities does tie them together.

I got my Grenadier in December and drove it from Seattle to DC.

 

[DaveB]

this looks pretty good to me, except for a couple things…
View attachment 7845340
that open pattern makes me dizzy, and the piping seams on the consul are uneven. On Ineos’ end, that left grab bar needs to be some kind of a space to store stuff near at hand like every other SUV of this size. I absolutely love the tray in the defenders and the land cruisers. It is so handy when you get into the vehicle with a bunch of cartridges, or gloves, or your cell phone or any of the other crap you just want to off load for a couple of minutes into a tray. And the grenadier doesn’t have any of that.
within two weeks of starting to use mine, I’m going to have empty cartridges, sandwich wrappers, beer cans, cigar wraps, transmitters, radios, tools, keys, hand guns, napkins, dog collars, God knows what all else, rolling around under both seats because there’s no place to put stuff.

That's strange.
I have had mine for months and don't have any of those things rolling around in it.

 

[emax]

In my experience, this is especially noticed in rural and aged populations.

You could also call them a down-to-earth population with life experience.

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

That's strange.
I have had mine for months and don't have any of those things rolling around in it.

Everybody does things differently. I am short waisted and I don't like sitting on my .45.
I compulsively pick up trash, so I accumulate detritus. My state has a .10 refund for an aluminum can, so I have an eye for a beer can at 50 meters. I pick up a few thousand in the woods every year.
Usually I just toss them into the passenger footwell until disposal.
Before anyone asks, the boot is reserved for dogs , gear, and guns.

 

[DaveB]

Everybody does things differently. I am short waisted and I don't like sitting on my .45.
I compulsively pick up trash, so I accumulate detritus. My state has a .10 refund for an aluminum can, so I have an eye for a beer can at 50 meters. I pick up a few thousand in the woods every year.
Usually I just toss them into the passenger footwell until disposal.
Before anyone asks, the boot is reserved for dogs , gear, and guns.

Yes, everybody does things differently.
Not sure what short waisted means but i wouldn't want to sit on a handgun regardless of the calibre.
Mine is a .357 magnum with a 6" barrell so it would be very uncomfortable to sit on.
Picking up rubbish is very commendable, but throwing it on the passenger footwell is pretty disgusting.
We have a guy who occasionally comes to the park down the road to go through the bins for cans and bottles and his passenger and rear seat is full.
I never see him with a woman in the car for some reason.
That is exactly what the boot is intended for, assuming you are not taking the guns to a future mass shooting.

 

[ECrider]

I'd feel a right Kahnt sitting in that

 

[Lord Ripon USA]

Sadly, in our state, the Busch Latte' crowd loves to punctuate the trails with beautiful silver and blue cans. When the snow melts, prior to green up, it's like a bloom of mushrooms.
And as an amateur dog trainer, there is alot of moving from place to place , so, loading/ unloading dogs, guns, gear, is a chore.
I haven't seen one built out yet in person, but with an 8" drawer for gear, and 2 large kennels, there is no room in the boot for picking up forest refuse.
With the rear seats folded flat, idk.
I'm probably going to remove it and have a cover laser cut from 6mm hdpe with a pebbled finish. I'm so accustomed to using milk crates for bumpers and leads, I'm will have to see some in use.

 

[terdrocket]

Yes, everybody does things differently.
Not sure what short waisted means but i wouldn't want to sit on a handgun regardless of the calibre.
Mine is a .357 magnum with a 6" barrell so it would be very uncomfortable to sit on.
Picking up rubbish is very commendable, but throwing it on the passenger footwell is pretty disgusting.
We have a guy who occasionally comes to the park down the road to go through the bins for cans and bottles and his passenger and rear seat is full.
I never see him with a woman in the car for some reason.
That is exactly what the boot is intended for, assuming you are not taking the guns to a future mass shooting.

View attachment 7845619

My Seecamp .32 is so small, you can't tell it's in your back pocket. Perfect every day carry.

 

[Loc Nar]

My Seecamp .32 is so small, you can't tell it's in your back pocket. Perfect every day carry.

You also can't tell when you get hit with it. I keed, I keed, I just make a leetle joke! Very leetle.