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Grenadier Review - Day 1, 2022 Overland East Expo, Virginia USA

Caladan

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Notes from my visit with the INEOS staff at the Overland Expo East in Arrington, Virginia USA (Day 1 - Friday, 7 October 2022):
  • The vehicle on display in blue and white livery was the same Prototype 2 model that has been in the US for a year now. As with all prototypes, the interior plastics were primarily 3D-printed and not indicative of the final fit and finish.
  • An INEOS rep confirmed that they had just finished their high-altitude Grenadier testing in Colorado and that there was a video in post-production that would be disseminated in the near future to report upon that testing.
  • There has been discussion at INEOS about public feedback on the wheel tunnel humps in the rear cargo area. The humps are caused by / due to the position of the shock towers. However there may be a design change made to provide a more squared off look to the humps.
  • Manufacturing - Hambach v. Wales: One of the INEOS reps indicated that Hambach became a better choice to produce cars because the proposed site in Wales , a former Ford site, had been previously focused on engine / power train machining. It would have taken more physical changes and time to develop that site to perform Grenadier assembly. On the other hand, Hambach was already making the Smart car and thus needed far less time and effort to prepare it to build Grenadiers. Thus, they are bringing the Grenadier to market faster.
  • A More “Hands-On” Ownership: The INEOS rep confirmed there will be a focus on making the Grenadier easier to maintain by the car owner. For example, detailed shop manuals would be made available and downloadable. Parts designs have been focused on making things more interchangeable for easier repairs. One example of this are the front headlights. In other brands, you probably have to order a left or a right headlamp with different part numbers. The Grenadier’s left and right headlamps are interchangeable (not a different “left” and “right” headlamp) and could easily be swapped out and leveled by the owner.
  • There will be 11 vehicles made available in the US for potential buyers to obtain a test drive. When: Possibly as early as January 2023 but more likely later in Spring 2023.
  • Pricing in the US: One rep said pricing would probably be in the higher trim range of the current Jeep Rubicons / Ford Bronco’s, but wouldn’t be made known until after January 2023. Another rep opined that the cost of the vehicle may be slightly higher in the $70-80K USD range. Regardless of what the true cost may be, both confirmed that the factory price would be THE price. The INEOS dealership model in the US would not make it possible for a dealer to insert their own local dealer pricing and/or additional mark-ups.
  • A44501D1-0F79-4522-809E-F50713C76EF2.jpeg4963C3DA-3E35-4171-A271-B87564D33C5C.jpeg9DC4E34A-92F4-4FF3-9531-A175771D7538.jpeg
 

DCPU

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Manufacturing - Hambach v. Wales: One of the INEOS reps indicated that Hambach became a better choice to produce cars because the proposed site in Wales , a former Ford site, had been previously focused on engine / power train machining. It would have taken more physical changes and time to develop that site to perform Grenadier assembly. On the other hand, Hambach was already making the Smart car and thus needed far less time and effort to prepare it to build Grenadiers. Thus, they are bringing the Grenadier to market faster.
I think someone's got that wrong or are re-writing history.

The Ford site in Bridgend was mooted as a possible site for production but Ineos actually selected a different site in Bridgend, adjacent to the Ford plant, bought the land from the Welsh Government, and started preliminary works for a brand new factory before abandoning the site.

The new Grenadier manufacturing and assembly plant was going to be 250,000 sq foot, the Ford factory was 1,525,320 square foot.

"INEOS also confirmed that the Grenadier will be built in a bespoke new manufacturing facility on a greenfield site in Bridgend, South Wales. This will create 200 jobs initially, and up to 500 in the long term. Site development is now under way to support planned start of production in 2021."
(Ineos Press Release dated Wednesday, September 18, 2019)

The decision to move to Hambach was formally announced in December 2020.

Parts designs have been focused on making things more interchangeable for easier repairs. One example of this are the front headlights. In other brands, you probably have to order a left or a right headlamp with different part numbers. The Grenadier’s left and right headlamps are interchangeable (not a different “left” and “right” headlamp) and could easily be swapped out and leveled by the owner.
That's a positive but I wonder why Ineos marketing material to date has only communicated this for the rear lights not the headlights and the maker, Nolden, does not offer such interchangability in their applicable range?

[
Regardless of what the true cost may be, both confirmed that the factory price would be THE price. The INEOS dealership model in the US would not make it possible for a dealer to insert their own local dealer pricing and/or additional mark-ups.
It will be interesting to see how Ineos do that. Ford don't seem able and Porsche are being sued in the US by dealers for trying to impose restrictive practices.

Is this just a goodie bag, or something to do with the vehicle?
 

Michael Gain

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Jealous. We got our invitation email on Monday for the event. We're in the Midwest. Don't really have the ability to adjust our schedule and plan a trip with that short of notice. Definitely happy that someone was able to take advantage of it though! Hope you enjoyed the expo and seeing the IG in person.
 

DaveB

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Headlight beam patterns are different for LHD and RHD and different for the left hand headlight and the right hand.
Not sure how they could be interchangeable unless the ECU in the car adjusts them when it detects which side they are plugged into.

1665330297868.png
 

Caladan

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Headlight beam patterns are different for LHD and RHD and different for the left hand headlight and the right hand.
Not sure how they could be interchangeable unless the ECU in the car adjusts them when it detects which side they are plugged into.

View attachment 7794507
All good points. Only reporting what was spoken on site. Good to know that there are other sources to assess for validation.
 

Caladan

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I think someone's got that wrong or are re-writing history.

The Ford site in Bridgend was mooted as a possible site for production but Ineos actually selected a different site in Bridgend, adjacent to the Ford plant, bought the land from the Welsh Government, and started preliminary works for a brand new factory before abandoning the site.

The new Grenadier manufacturing and assembly plant was going to be 250,000 sq foot, the Ford factory was 1,525,320 square foot.

"INEOS also confirmed that the Grenadier will be built in a bespoke new manufacturing facility on a greenfield site in Bridgend, South Wales. This will create 200 jobs initially, and up to 500 in the long term. Site development is now under way to support planned start of production in 2021."
(Ineos Press Release dated Wednesday, September 18, 2019)

The decision to move to Hambach was formally announced in December 2020.


That's a positive but I wonder why Ineos marketing material to date has only communicated this for the rear lights not the headlights and the maker, Nolden, does not offer such interchangability in their applicable range?


It will be interesting to see how Ineos do that. Ford don't seem able and Porsche are being sued in the US by dealers for trying to impose restrictive practices.


Is this just a goodie bag, or something to do with the vehicle?
Great points made. Good to know that there are different facets to what is being stated at different venues and that we have this forum to contrast and compare notes.

The bag? That was some swag handed out to all who stopped by the INEOS tent.
 

DCPU

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More feedback from this event:

Screenshot_20221010_062413.jpg
What caught my eye:

Roller awning for safari windows 👍
Wing top chequerplate to be steel 😳
Doos unlock with a key; no fobiness from a distance 🤔
 

Caladan

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More feedback from this event:

View attachment 7794511
What caught my eye:

Roller awning for safari windows 👍
Wing top chequerplate to be steel 😳
Doos unlock with a key; no fobiness from a distance 🤔
Good detail. I forgot the INEOS rep mentioned about that roller cover for the safari windows! 👍🏻 I asked him if it was like the one I used to have on my LR Disco II sunroof and he said, “yeah like that”.
 

DCPU

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If you want to know the truth, you always need to ask the same question several times, preferably of more than one person.

Utimately, until you see the part numbers for say, the headlights, we will still be a little unsure; but I have more confidence in the forum answers, knowing where they have come from and knowing Nolden currently only offer handed headlights in their range.

Honest mistakes they may be, but it's not a good look for Ineos. Who's going to tell Greg Clark?
 

MileHigh

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Left-right lights? Just flip them around?

I see that the production delays have hit when we'll see the production models here in the US. I was told late this year we'd see them and be able to drive them on an off-road course... not unexpected with the delays.

I guess that they really can't tell how many vehicles that they get here in 2023. If that late, I would assume that they are '2024' models, if there will be any actual differences in early years. I'm kind of glad to get one from steady(ier) state production than one put together now. I'm a Feb21 pre-order, so I doubt I'll be in the first set. I guess 2024, maybe in time for summer. But who knows.

Does everyone's avatar have that they've 'ordered'? I thought that was only for the EU so far?
 

DaveB

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Left-right lights? Just flip them around?

I see that the production delays have hit when we'll see the production models here in the US. I was told late this year we'd see them and be able to drive them on an off-road course... not unexpected with the delays.

I guess that they really can't tell how many vehicles that they get here in 2023. If that late, I would assume that they are '2024' models, if there will be any actual differences in early years. I'm kind of glad to get one from steady(ier) state production than one put together now. I'm a Feb21 pre-order, so I doubt I'll be in the first set. I guess 2024, maybe in time for summer. But who knows.

Does everyone's avatar have that they've 'ordered'? I thought that was only for the EU so far?
Orders opened for everywhere except North America.
Maybe Asia and South America also but I don't think they planned to open there anyway
 

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Left-right lights? Just flip them around?

I see that the production delays have hit when we'll see the production models here in the US. I was told late this year we'd see them and be able to drive them on an off-road course... not unexpected with the delays.

I guess that they really can't tell how many vehicles that they get here in 2023. If that late, I would assume that they are '2024' models, if there will be any actual differences in early years. I'm kind of glad to get one from steady(ier) state production than one put together now. I'm a Feb21 pre-order, so I doubt I'll be in the first set. I guess 2024, maybe in time for summer. But who knows.

Does everyone's avatar have that they've 'ordered'? I thought that was only for the EU so far?
Headlights don't just put out round patterns anymore. There are very strict patterns and sharp cutoff lines they need to achieve.
LED's can switch on and off to achieve a pattern so this may be how they're doing it.
Headlights are definitely designed for each side of the vehicle and are different/reversed in RHD & LHD markets

1665472798088.png
 

Caladan

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Left-right lights? Just flip them around?

I see that the production delays have hit when we'll see the production models here in the US. I was told late this year we'd see them and be able to drive them on an off-road course... not unexpected with the delays.

I guess that they really can't tell how many vehicles that they get here in 2023. If that late, I would assume that they are '2024' models, if there will be any actual differences in early years. I'm kind of glad to get one from steady(ier) state production than one put together now. I'm a Feb21 pre-order, so I doubt I'll be in the first set. I guess 2024, maybe in time for summer. But who knows.

Does everyone's avatar have that they've 'ordered'? I thought that was only for the EU so far?
Re: Order Status. Yes, that “Order” badge just showed up recently but I’m only a reservation holder at this time. Maybe an Admin jumped the gun for those of us located in North America?
 

klarie

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Headlight beam patterns are different for LHD and RHD and different for the left hand headlight and the right hand.
Not sure how they could be interchangeable unless the ECU in the car adjusts them when it detects which side they are plugged into.

View attachment 7794507
Hm, if the Headlights are LED Matrix type - then indeed it could be programmed to go left or right. assymetric. This should be possible on IG. The modern Mainlight detect and adjust automatically. No matter on what side of road will be driven
 

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Hm, if the Headlights are LED Matrix type - then indeed it could be programmed to go left or right. assymetric. This should be possible on IG. The modern Mainlight detect and adjust automatically. No matter on what side of road will be driven
I think we've already had confirmation that they are handed units.
 
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