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Grenadier Cross-Shopping?

d1rty

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So while we wait for the Grenadier delivery (and final pricing and specs), I'm sure some of us are cross-shopping the Grenadier or making fall-back plans for contingency purposes.

Me?  I put in a Cybertruck order the week they opened.  But it's been over two years with no official word.  I much prefer the Ineos style of doing it all in the open.  Sure, we get some pictures, and Elon is a prolific Tweeter.  But no official word on final design, final specs, final pricing, delivery schedules...  We keep hearing "the next shareholder call with have details..."  Yeah.  Rumors about the move to Dual and Quad motor setups exclusively, and pricing uncertainty have me a bit worried.

Also, I'm not sure I'm ready for an EV as my primary vehicle.  Yes, the 500 mile advertised range for the (now defunct) Tri motor model I signed up for would make most drives along the US East Coast a one stop trip.  But it does mean staying pretty closely tethered to supercharger stations - while petrol is everywhere! - and EVs tend to really lose efficiency BAD when towing or off-roading.

So as excited as I was about the Cybertruck, I think I'm cooled off on it, and would prefer the Grenadier.

My contingency plan is a 2022 (maybe 2023 by the time things roll around) Toyota Tundra.  I have a 2014 Tundra, and it's been amazing.  Absolutely no problems, and the truck is massively overbuilt.  The new one have some very nice touches - that 14" screen!, and the TRD Offroad package finally includes a locking rear differential.  The V6TT is more powerful, the transmission has 10 speeds now, and gas mileage seems to be up quite a bit (from 15 or 16 MPG Highway to 22? according to the EPA).  Toyota finally has the pricing and configurator for most models online (notably missing the TRD Pro, though) - and a simple SR5 optioned up to include that showpiece 14" display and TRD Offroad is about $52-55K, depending on how heavy you option it out.  Seeing as how the TRD Pro includes the hybrid drivetrain (not a fan, actually, more stuff to break and you lose rear underseat storage) and is based on a higher trim for this generation, I'm betting that would come in about $62-65K, again depending on how heavy it gets optioned.

I would be totally happy with another Tundra, especially if it does get 22 MPG highway (although early reports seem to indicate this is optimistic).  S if the Grenadier does somehow fall flat - and here's where being a year behind ROW on deliveries is an advantage to see how they are received - or the pricing is MUCH higher than we are anticipating, that's my backup.

Just curious what everyone else is cross shopping and/or using as a fall-back plan?
 

Paachi

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I, myself have booked a Rivian (R1T/S). The idea is it will replace our family runabout SUV but also act as a good camping vehicle. I seriously don’t see it replacing my G Wagon as my overlanding, battle tested rig for many years to come. If the Grenadier doesn’t happen then I plan to run my G to the ground. Hell even if I buy the Gren I might cancel the Rivian and keep the G. It’s paid off, I know it well enough to tinker myself. It’s compact and is my perfect everything vehicle. 

The only other vehicle that catches my fancy is a 78 Troopy but they are a bit too niche and generally hard to find in LHD and good condition. Plus they are a great touring rig once built. But not very useful in my application otherwise. 
 

ChasingOurTrunks

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Great question, d1rty.

For me, I've got an order of preference:

1) Grenadier. 

2) New Defender. It's not at all what we wanted in a Defender and it's way too complicated a machine, but the stuff I need/want -- off road performance, payload, and globally available parts and support -- it's the only other rig I can buy in Canada that checks all the boxes. I'm absolutely nervous about reliability in a rig like this, but like any car manufacturer, I always look at buying a car as a gamble and reliability ratings as the "odds". What I mean is, you can buy a Toyota and have it be an absolute lemon, and you can buy a Land Rover and have it last hundreds of thousands of trouble-free miles -- the odds are MUCH better that you'll get hundreds of thousands of miles out of the Toyota, but it's no guarantee when it comes down to the individual rig you buy.

3) Mercedes Sprinter 4x4. We've only started seriously considering this option over the weekend, but after some reading it's in my number 3 spot for a global touring vehicle. It would meet our needs for a while as we tour North America, but would be a significant compromise in off-road performance and so I'm hesitant to go too remote with it.

4) Stick with a North American Mid-Sized Truck. This makes me a bit nervous due to parts and serviceability for my intended trips outside of North America.

5) And old Defender or LC Troopy import. 

I strongly prefer the compact size of a 4x4, but I would consider the Van since the compromise isn't too bad -- space to live-in instead of around means more comfort in some places, for example. 

 

AZGrenadier

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I will happily drive my 06 Tundra or my wife's GX460.  Either one I will have to put a little more money into it but nothing else on the market really tickles me.  Would just have to figure out what to get for my wife, maybe a Macan or an SQ5.  So hopefully the Grenadier isn't a letdown. 
 

Tazzieman

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AZGrenadier said:
I will happily drive my 06 Tundra or my wife's GX460.  Either one I will have to put a little more money into it but nothing else on the market really tickles me.  Would just have to figure out what to get for my wife, maybe a Macan or an SQ5.  So hopefully the Grenadier isn't a letdown. 
My wife's moving from a GLC Benz to a Volvo XC40 recharge. She wants the future , and not the future crazy service costs! The XC40 moves like stink!
 

AZGrenadier

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I had a Volvo C30 that I really liked until about 80k miles.  Then the AC went out, the high beams went out and a couple of other small things.  When I was told that the relay for the high beams is built into some main eco and it would be 900 for the parts and 900 for labor I sold the car.  It was fun until then though.
 

Stu_Barnes

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For us the wife will be dropping the RR Sport, that its assuming that the Gren is available in 2 years time in North America. Otherwise it will be me swapping out the Disco 4, and that will be a hard day for me. I just need to contrive of a way to keep them both....
 

Spjnr

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If I didn't get a grenadier, I'd either build a hilux, or buy an import 76 series v8
 

grenadierguy

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If I didn't get a Grenadier... I think I would be looking at the Rivian R1S.
 

MileHigh

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We’ll see over the next three months if orders are going to come through and if all the pre-sales will be met in 2023 (US).

I have a 2015 Tahoe that has low miles, so I don’t have to move. Cross buying would be a Jeep 392, the next gen 4Runner (if it actually ever gets here) and isn’t bastard-hybridized-Twinturbo. Maybe a Lexus GX, but they are that grill is fugly.
 

Shaky

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Well no one has mentioned my back up vehicle yet, which is a very close 2nd to the Grenadier and that is the new 2023 Ford Ranger V6 double cab truck.

I think it will be the pick of the bunch of 4x4 double cabs available in the UK when it comes out and looks nice, I can see me driving that in a grey colour with an RSI Smart Canopy on the back.

If that is a blow out then I don’t have a third choice, I would probably buy nothing and sit tight and see what happens For a year or so
 

Shaky

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Great question, d1rty.

For me, I've got an order of preference:

1) Grenadier.

2) New Defender. It's not at all what we wanted in a Defender and it's way too complicated a machine, but the stuff I need/want -- off road performance, payload, and globally available parts and support -- it's the only other rig I can buy in Canada that checks all the boxes. I'm absolutely nervous about reliability in a rig like this, but like any car manufacturer, I always look at buying a car as a gamble and reliability ratings as the "odds". What I mean is, you can buy a Toyota and have it be an absolute lemon, and you can buy a Land Rover and have it last hundreds of thousands of trouble-free miles -- the odds are MUCH better that you'll get hundreds of thousands of miles out of the Toyota, but it's no guarantee when it comes down to the individual rig you buy.

3) Mercedes Sprinter 4x4. We've only started seriously considering this option over the weekend, but after some reading it's in my number 3 spot for a global touring vehicle. It would meet our needs for a while as we tour North America, but would be a significant compromise in off-road performance and so I'm hesitant to go too remote with it.

4) Stick with a North American Mid-Sized Truck. This makes me a bit nervous due to parts and serviceability for my intended trips outside of North America.

5) And old Defender or LC Troopy import.

I strongly prefer the compact size of a 4x4, but I would consider the Van since the compromise isn't too bad -- space to live-in instead of around means more comfort in some places, for example.

Have you looked around the Sprinter 4x4 ?

They are an absolute beast (in size).

Bizarrely my other half came home in one of these only a month ago, that she was going to take to a customer the next day. It was brand new and I thought it would be rude not to take it for a quick spin. With some extra sound deadening on it a few other bits I think It would be an a great vehicle.

Some real pros would be the ground clearance. It felt like it had already received a 3“ lift kit on it, and if some extra diff locks were added I don’t think much would stop it. Before anyone says anything no it’s not a rock crawler, I know that.

The cons would be due to the extra size it would struggle on some enclosed tracks that a “normal” size 4x4 would navigate quite easily. As a touring vehicle that could navigate some rough roads and tracks it would be immense I’m sure. The extra space would come in invaluable.
 

rovie

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Have you looked around the Sprinter 4x4 ?

They are an absolute beast (in size).

Bizarrely my other half came home in one of these only a month ago, that she was going to take to a customer the next day. It was brand new and I thought it would be rude not to take it for a quick spin. With some extra sound deadening on it a few other bits I think It would be an a great vehicle.

Some real pros would be the ground clearance. It felt like it had already received a 3“ lift kit on it, and if some extra diff locks were added I don’t think much would stop it. Before anyone says anything no it’s not a rock crawler, I know that.

The cons would be due to the extra size it would struggle on some enclosed tracks that a “normal” size 4x4 would navigate quite easily. As a touring vehicle that could navigate some rough roads and tracks it would be immense I’m sure. The extra space would come in invaluable.
Besides the Grenadier, I am also working on other vehicles. One of them is the Sprinter 4x4.
Unfortunately, from my point of view, the engine has been reduced to less than 2 litres due to the CO2 hype. I say, lawnmower engine. The 319 with the 3 litre 6-cylinder is unfortunately no longer sold. Also, from my point of view, the new Sprinter has no real all-wheel drive. Rather, it is a viscous clutch that controls the drive front and rear together with the brake system. The predecessor still had an all-wheel drive system.
There are still new vehicles 3 litre 6-cylinder with one-day registration at extremely high prices. Some people here have bought these speculative objects.
 

emax

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I dare say that it is a cheapo-construction. Good idea, poor solution and thus too expensive, IMHO.
 

Shaky

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Besides the Grenadier, I am also working on other vehicles. One of them is the Sprinter 4x4.
Unfortunately, from my point of view, the engine has been reduced to less than 2 litres due to the CO2 hype. I say, lawnmower engine. The 319 with the 3 litre 6-cylinder is unfortunately no longer sold. Also, from my point of view, the new Sprinter has no real all-wheel drive. Rather, it is a viscous clutch that controls the drive front and rear together with the brake system. The predecessor still had an all-wheel drive system.
There are still new vehicles 3 litre 6-cylinder with one-day registration at extremely high prices. Some people here have bought these speculative objects.
Ah, yes the one I drove was a 319. It had sat around for a while whilst some extra kit was fitted to it. I didn’t even realise they had changed them.

Cheap construction or not they are very popular, well the 319’s are
 

Caladan

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Here in the U.S., I'm currently holding an order for a Bronco Badlands (non-Sasquatch) with 2.7 L engine, 10-speed auto trans, MIC hardtop, and tow package. I ordered it in December 2021. Since then, I have received exactly one official email from Ford Motor Company (which confirmed receipt of the order and my deposit). As of this week, I'm not scheduled for production and, thus, have no VIN# nor build date. If my order is not scheduled for production in Manufacturing Year (MY) 2022, then I will be required to renew my order for MY23 beginning 12 September thru my local dealership. If INEOS is smart, they should be closely monitoring Ford's experience with this Bronco roll-out. It's a textbook example on how NOT to bring a new, wildly popular model to market. Lessons-learned for everyone (factory, dealerships and the customers).

Here's what Ford got right: opening the five Bronco Roadeo (driving experience) sites at Moab, Utah / Gunstock Mountain, New Hampshire / Grey Wolf Ranch, Texas / and Mount Potosi, Nevada. After ordering the Bronco Badlands, I attended the Bronco Roadeo in Texas and spent a superb time on trails in varying conditions with the excellent driving instructors to fully understand and use all the off-road components/electronic aids. I'm not a rock-crawler; I lean into overlanding. But I thoroughly enjoyed myself with the strategy of climbing rock (see photo below of me driving up with rear locker enabled). That driving experience validated my model choice and has been the sole reason why I haven't abandoned my order. (I believe INEOS is looking at establishing something similar here in the U.S.)

Now I have the INEOS reservation but intend to hang on to the Bronco order as a back-up.

UPDATE: Well, well, well. Out of the blue (pun intended), Ford emailed me last week with the news that my Bronco Badlands is scheduled for production the last week of September 2022! Ford also provided me the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). This is incredibly exciting news but... I'm not going to hold my breath. I know of a few people who have been scheduled for production only to see their production week get bumped into the future. So, best to be guarded and keep my Grenadier reservation active. I know that U.S. orders won't open until Summer 2023 and the Bronco potentially could be built / delivered before that time. Bit of a dilemma...
 

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Arkaig

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Whilst watching and ordering the Grenadier, I was and still am following the progress of the Fering Pioneer.
 

Stu_Barnes

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The pioneer is a really interesting option. Way out of my price range however. 79FAE871-3432-4223-BFB1-700A2172DF34.png
These stats are great if it makes it into production.
 

Spjnr

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The pioneer is a really interesting option. Way out of my price range however. View attachment 7792371
These stats are great if it makes it into production.
Big claims there by Fering. Can't personally see something like this entering the mainstream public market.

Perhaps a niche vehicle for some military applications?
 

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Have just purchased a Land Cruiser 76 GXL 5 Door (2021) as a stand by vehicle with very low milage. Once the Grenadier is on a ship to Australia, the LC will go on the market place and the way the market is zooming these days for LC, all costings will be recovered plus some. Had to transport the LC up to Townsville from Launceston in Tasmania but it will be a good standby product, and produce good sale price in 12 months time. Meanwhile I have a good Bush Car.
Les Hiddins AM
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