Going Cold Cranking Lithium for both Batteries?

[douggie]

Hi,

I have a thought to replace both batteries with Lithium Cold Cranking replacements - there are a number of people in Australia who have done this with Lithium batteries for other vehicles (myself included) very successfully. I have a Lithiumax Restart 11 in by Jeep GC that I am very happy with. Rule of thumb is that 1/2 the capacity provides the same function (due to useable power and the ability to deep cycle the lithium batteries without damage). I can testify too two happy years with my RESTART11 and they are popular in Toyota LCs as perfect size and can go under bonnet.

Lithiumax have a new RESTART10 60Ah new model coming out that will fit the Grenadier with a little work (It's 12cm shorter). H6 278L x 175W x 190Hmm (as opposed to the H15 format 394L x 175W x 190Hmm)
Really tempted with trying to put a N70ZZL (truck size) unit in but don't think I can make it work. This is not going to be a quick change out (but a long term idea)

Lithiumax RESTART10 product link

Pros:

• Huge weight saving (>20kgs per battery) - assume 29-30kgs per EGS battery (40kgs savings for dual battery)
• Inbuilt battery protection it shuts down keeping a reserve (with a restart button or bluetooth function to give you 1 last vehicle start)
• Longer life 5-10 years
• Direct replacement - no change to electronics for charging
• Bluetooth monitor (helps me see drain on battery and when the vehicle stops drawing power etc) - and status on individual battery

Cons:

• Cost expected $1399 per battery
• Bluetooth monitor consumes a little power
• Size change/ Spec change: 12cm shorter and CTEK wants to know battery technology
  • Except for your CTEK units to tell the unit they are Lithium - the black wire goes to +ve terminal not -ve)
  • And locking it in space as it is shorter than the original (was no trouble on my jeep)
  • And making sure the terminal wires reach (11.5cm difference for one side)

BTW: I still carry a battery jumpstart pack (being a belt and braces kind of guy) and I note on a restart attempt with my Jeep GC with the RESTART11 40Ah/850CCA, I had been away for a week or more, I had the headlights come on (it was dark), alarm go off and me fumble for the keys to stop it and just rob me of enough juice to start. I swear I missed by 1/10s of power to complete the diesel start - lesson learnt to turn off switches like auto lights etc before attempting.

What are peoples thoughts on this?
Anybody else thinking of something similar or had success with this approach on another Vehicle?

 

[TheDocAUS]

I like the idea however, the INEOS rep responsible the ADR process in Australia was strongly against any Lithium battery when I was talking to him at Purnell Adventure. I got the impression he meant cheap Chinese crap lithium batteries, but he did not say that.

 

[douggie]

Its been such a positive on my Jeep - cause it randomly flattens a battery. Something doesn't switch off just occasionally it'll be good for 4 months and then... kapow!
I haven't run the idea past the tech guys at Ignition Centre yet

 

[Znarfgh]

I'm thinking the 40Ah capacity is a little low (even though 40Ah Lithium equates to 80Ah conventional) - I would rather go with 2 x100Ah units but they are a little tall compared to the standard EFB's.

Does your JGC have stop/start technology? Mine doesn't and I would worry about the Lithium's capacity to deal with this but, more research is required me thinks. The other thing that concerns me a little is the lack of technical data sheets from the supplier. What type of cells do they use? What BMS is used? Cell balancing?

For the moment I will run with the standard setup until the batteries or the warranty expires and then make the switch. I'll be interested to see if the EFB's last the 5 years - my experience with lesser used GE: batteries says not, but time will tell.

For the moment I will run a separate LiFePO4 battery with charger and wire in all my consumers to that.

 

[trobex]

I wouldn't put a Lith battery in a car - fire risk is too high. I have seen Lith batteries go up in flames for seemingly no apparent reason.

 

[Znarfgh]

I wouldn't put a Lith battery in a car - fire risk is too high. I have seen Lith batteries go up in flames for seemingly no apparent reason.

Really depends on what kind of Lithium battery you use. The newer LiFePO4 batteries are pretty safe and I've seen someone put a nail through a cell without spontaneous combustion (not that I recommend trying this for whatever reason).

There are so many on the market these days that are inferior and to be avoided. Price is usually one indicator. No way I would buy a $350 100Ah lithium off the internet.

I've been running Lithium's on both car and van for many years now and have had no issues. Under bonnet mounting is something I would avoid.

 

[TheDocAUS]

At present the only Lithium battery in Australia where the whole battery is certified (and not just the cell) is Invicta. They come with a 7 year warranty (some of the newer choices only have a 3 or 5 year warranty). They have extensively tested, used and abused their batteries in tests. Be prepared to pay top dollar.

Although Muller Energy in Sydney looks interesting, for the DYIer or Battery Box users.

Lithium Iron Phosphate (LIFePo4) is one of the safer Lithium offerings, and my preferred choice.

I would avoid any cheap Chinese made batteries. The risks are too high, especially when you look inside the battery case.

 

[douggie]

I'm thinking the 40Ah capacity is a little low (even though 40Ah Lithium equates to 80Ah conventional) - I would rather go with 2 x100Ah units but they are a little tall compared to the standard EFB's.

Does your JGC have stop/start technology? Mine doesn't and I would worry about the Lithium's capacity to deal with this but, more research is required me thinks. The other thing that concerns me a little is the lack of technical data sheets from the supplier. What type of cells do they use? What BMS is used? Cell balancing?

For the moment I will run with the standard setup until the batteries or the warranty expires and then make the switch. I'll be interested to see if the EFB's last the 5 years - my experience with lesser used GE: batteries says not, but time will tell.

For the moment I will run a separate LiFePO4 battery with charger and wire in all my consumers to that.

There were two models of the restart10 there is a new 60Ah coming soon (they are taking pre-orders) and there is the thought to try with just 1 first as the service battery or main. Wouldn't be left dead with at least one unlike the couple of horror stories mentioned in the forum.

 

[Asnes]

douggie do you use a dc-dc charger between the batts and alternator or just connect direct and use the lead acid charging profile of the alternator and not worry about it?

 

[Znarfgh]

There were two models of the restart10 there is a new 60Ah coming soon (they are taking pre-orders) and there is the thought to try with just 1 first as the service battery or main. Wouldn't be left dead with at least one unlike the couple of horror stories mentioned in the forum.

If you only use one then you will need to remove the Smartpass 120.

 

[douggie]

douggie do you use a dc-dc charger between the batts and alternator or just connect direct and use the lead acid charging profile of the alternator and not worry about it?

I’ve put the ctek d250SE dc-dc charger in but I haven’t done the battery changeover yet. I want to do some measurements. I’ve also put a solar 160w panel on the roof wired to the d250SE. So running the lead acid profile for now.