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Diff locks or not?

paulN186

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Hi all

Anybody know how sophisticated the traction control will be on the IG. I am not a hard core off roader so doubt I will need the locking diffs and would need to learn how to use them ? watching a few vids it seems that a locking centre diff and good modern traction control (which brakes the wheel without traction to be able to send power to the other wheel) is very effective now a days so wondering if people think the diffs will be worth the extra cost (trying to keep my spec manageable!) and will it be a must have for people if I ever need to sell it? 
cheers paul 
 

emax

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Forget the cheapo software solutions like braking one wheel.

The Grenadier is all mechanic, no software tricks.

This car is made for real offroading and thus is (in my opinion) only complete with diff locks.
 

paulN186

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[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332747195]Forget the cheapo software solutions like braking one wheel.

The Grenadier is all mechanic, no software tricks.

This car is made for real offroading and thus is (in my opinion) only complete with diff locks.[/QUOTE]

its does have traction control though so was wondering if anybody knew what level it was as from what I can tell traction control systems can vary massively in their effectiveness. The diff lock as e lockers so no getting away from electrics completely! In a way I was thinning of specking it without the lockers kept it more simple 
 

stickshifter

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[QUOTE username=paulN186 userid=8631746 postid=1332747035]Hi all

Anybody know how sophisticated the traction control will be on the IG. I am not a hard core off roader so doubt I will need the locking diffs and would need to learn how to use them ? watching a few vids it seems that a locking centre diff and good modern traction control (which brakes the wheel without traction to be able to send power to the other wheel) is very effective now a days so wondering if people think the diffs will be worth the extra cost (trying to keep my spec manageable!) and will it be a must have for people if I ever need to sell it? 
cheers paul [/QUOTE]

Hey Paul,
Great question - but right now I don't think we have a good idea about how effective the traction control is off-road. I believe it is automatically shut-off when you shift into 4-low, though. Check out the video below; after the 27-minute mark, they speak English, and at some point the driver talks about the off-road features. But I'd echo the comment made by emax (above): a locking diff that can be engaged by the driver is much more effective at providing traction. In addition, software-based traction control just doesn't fit in with the ethos of the Grenadier, but one's budget is also a reality! You can always add air-lockers (like ARB Lockers) or a mechanical locker (like Ox Lockers) at a later date should you desire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wbr_UCfZcs
 

Chester

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I think you should definitely pick the diff locks. Even if you don’t use them they will be an important factor for future resale. Most people who are looking at the this vehicle will consider off road ability as an important factor. I haven’t found any concrete information about how good the traction control is. I don’t think it will be as good as the defender as they (Land Rover) have for years invested heavily in traction control systems for off road use. However nothing can compare to mechanical locking diffs when the going really gets tough! 
 

AZGrenadier

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Definitely agree on looking at resale for the Diff Locks.  Look at LC 80s in the US.  The triple locked ones sell for significantly more that the none locked.  Adding them later will most likely require aftermarket materials, although we don't really know at this point.  To add ARB or some other selectable lockers will most likely cost you 3k or more, probably closer to 4k.  The cost from the factory is so much less expensive it is a no brainer.
 

paulN186

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cheers for the great info people ? 

good video, it picks up well in acceleration eh! 

issue now is i want to keep adding kit! those safari windows do look good eh! 
 

G-Man

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I'm ashamed to say I specced the 'Rough Pack' purely for future resale value. I figured that given the target market for this vehicle, it was probably a bigger selling point than the leather seat option which was a similar price. Its a vehicle sold on capability and reliability, so pretty much a no-brainer.

Plus I hate it when I buy a vehicle and there are loads of buttons on the dash blanked off with fixed dummy buttons - it just shouts compromise and is a permanent reminder that I missed out on some tasty options. And the Grenadier has a lot of really chunky buttons ?
 

paulN186

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[QUOTE username=G-Man userid=8989993 postid=1332749110]I'm ashamed to say I specced the 'Rough Pack' purely for future resale value. I figured that given the target market for this vehicle, it was probably a bigger selling point than the leather seat option which was a similar price. Its a vehicle sold on capability and reliability, so pretty much a no-brainer.

Plus I hate it when I buy a vehicle and there are loads of buttons on the dash blanked off with fixed dummy buttons - it just shouts compromise and is a permanent reminder that I missed out on some tasty options. And the Grenadier has a lot of really chunky buttons ?[/QUOTE]

ha ha i might do the same! although i don't know if i really want the full off road tyres the Bridgestone all terrain might be a better option for me but the off road tyres come free with the rough pack compared to buying the diffs on their own so probably go with them also, did you go for the high load electrics also? damn it gets expensive eh! lol! 
 

ECrider

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For me the diffs are necessary but if not I'd still spec them for any resale. As mentioned abve the target market will be off-roaders so will seek out those with diffs spec'd. 

I to hate a car where the buttons have been blanked out by some black plastic!!!
 

Davman

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[QUOTE username=G-Man userid=8989993 postid=1332749110]I'm ashamed to say I specced the 'Rough Pack' purely for future resale value. I figured that given the target market for this vehicle, it was probably a bigger selling point than the leather seat option which was a similar price. Its a vehicle sold on capability and reliability, so pretty much a no-brainer.

Plus I hate it when I buy a vehicle and there are loads of buttons on the dash blanked off with fixed dummy buttons - it just shouts compromise and is a permanent reminder that I missed out on some tasty options. And the Grenadier has a lot of really chunky buttons ?[/QUOTE]

+1   - I dont really need it I dont think, but its a must have for all these reasons.
 

emax

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@paulN186

if you mean the traction control as part of the ESP then that is by no means comparable to mechanical diff locks.

In my car I have to switch OFF the ESP if I can not get up a snowy hill otherwise the ESP will stupidly break a wheel where I don't want or need it at all. This is for me not exactly an indicator for a diff lock replacement.
 

Disco Dave

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The level of traction control braking is a combination of the braking power of the electronic control unit and the braking power of the brakes themselves. We have been told that the IG brakes are very effective, so assume that they are not an issue. How powerful is the control unit?

Now the traction control in my 2000 model Discovery 2 is actually very good, so good I have only felt the need for diff locks on a few occasions in very difficult terrain. Though I didn’t feel the need to rush out and buy diff locks. I might add, that the brakes on the D2 are not all that good.

I think this will remain one of the IG’s big mysteries, until people get them off-road properly. For me, I am getting the diff locks.
 

paulN186

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[QUOTE username=emax userid=8900646 postid=1332749627]@paulN186

if you mean the traction control as part of the ESP then that is by no means comparable to mechanical diff locks.

In my car I have to switch OFF the ESP if I can not get up a snowy hill otherwise the ESP will stupidly break a wheel where I don't want or need it at all. This is for me not exactly an indicator for a diff lock replacement.
[/QUOTE]

I suppose this is my question it is a simple traction control for road driving situation or is set up to to act like a diff when you don't have mechanic diff locks, when i look at the videos for LR, toyota etc without mechanical diff the traction control systems are very good and effective, almost as good as a Mechanic diff in most situations. Seeing videos of the latest defender off road this is not much it can't conquer off road and it may even be better than the IG but the reason for wanting the IG is reliability and robustness which the modern LR products seem to be lacking! 

Cheers Paul 
 

stickshifter

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[QUOTE username=paulN186 userid=8631746 postid=1332749208]

ha ha i might do the same! although i don't know if i really want the full off road tyres the Bridgestone all terrain might be a better option for me but the off road tyres come free with the rough pack compared to buying the diffs on their own so probably go with them also, did you go for the high load electrics also? damn it gets expensive eh! lol! [/QUOTE]

If it helps with your decision - the BFG KO2 is an All-Terrain (AT) tire, not a Mud Terrain (MT) tire - so its not really a "full off road" tire. The KO2 has a high speed rating, mine are snow-rated (I think they all are), and it is quiet on-road (for an AT). I don't think you will be unhappy with the BFG KO2 in most driving circumstances. It is not very good in mud, however, as the lug-pattern does not clear mud, and the tire quickly gets packed. If you only ever drive on paved roads, then the Bridgestone is a better choice (but your Grenadier will cry every night - not living its best Grenadier life).

As an aside, the original KO was pretty much crap, so don't listen to negative reviews about that tire. The KO2 might look similar to the KO, but is a very different tire.
 

AZGrenadier

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I love the KO2s. I have been running them for probably 12 years (have they been around that long?). Have had them on our past 3 SUVs, A Lexus LX and 2 GXs. Great tire all around. 
 

Paachi

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+1 on the KO2s. Love them and haven’t yet found a good enough replacement. I am eyeing Falkens and Coopers for my next replacement but if I get the Grenadier then might just do the KO2s due to familiarity. 
Anything that either becomes a pain to do later or will add to resale value/ help me grow in my skills is a box I will tick when building the Grenadier. So diff locks, hi capacity electrical prep pack are a must have. I tend to keep the vehicles for a long time so spending up front is better for me rather than piece meal later. 
 

Shaky

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Like many here and the OP I was thinking I don’t need three lockers but did fancy the KO2’s as I know how good they are and just a centre diff lock and the tyres would get me through 90% of what I would ever need it for. when the specs and models came of IG probably by design made it easy for me, I ordered the Trialmaster….I needed a new jacket ? 

Its all on there and my point of view is it will help resale value and not scream poverty spec to a potential buyer. However I haven’t bought it with the next owner in mind in fact I intend to run this thing until the wheels fall off or I shuffle off this mortal coil myself and that at least another 20 years I would like to think. As said for the real narly stuff knowing you can just lock everything out is a massive confidence boost and possibly a life saver.
 

mkennedy009

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I spec'd my with out the F/R lockers. My 05 Rubicon TJL I only used the lockers in the offroading class I took. I will not be ordering the lockers. If in the future I need them, I will get the ARB air lockers. They are solid. I am not a fan of the way the factory ones work. There are lots of videos on the small annoyance.I am not buying this to sell, it is not an investment. It is to replace my stable of motorcycles. I will keep the T100, all the others must go. This will be my hunting rig for Oregon, dogs will love the space in the back or on the rear seat and I will come home and not be soaked through.

Lastly, one of the videos the prototypes did not have F/R lockers and it did everything I would do and did it well.  Will get the winch, just in case.
 

paulN186

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[QUOTE username=Michael Kennedy  mkennedy009 userid=8949828 postid=1332753601]I spec'd my with out the F/R lockers. My 05 Rubicon TJL I only used the lockers in the offroading class I took. I will not be ordering the lockers. If in the future I need them, I will get the ARB air lockers. They are solid. I am not a fan of the way the factory ones work. There are lots of videos on the small annoyance.I am not buying this to sell, it is not an investment. It is to replace my stable of motorcycles. I will keep the T100, all the others must go. This will be my hunting rig for Oregon, dogs will love the space in the back or on the rear seat and I will come home and not be soaked through.

Lastly, one of the videos the prototypes did not have F/R lockers and it did everything I would do and did it well.  Will get the winch, just in case.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think the lockers were working on any of the prototypes and as you say it was very capable. I was also think the e lockers they are using have mixed reviews! 
 
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