DC to DC chargers impact on your alternator

[TheDocAUS]

A video showing the impact of the DC to DC charger on your alternator. He looks at DJI, EcoFlow and Bluetti.

Fortunately for us, INEOS has put a capable alternator into the Grenadier. It should be able to handle DC to DC chargers as part of the mix. Anything up to 30 amps should not cause problems for owners, but you do need to be conscious about how many high draw devices on at once (especially accessories you added).

The risk is higher with big Lithium batteries (over 200Ah) that can draw big power when charging.

I never had any problems with the Nissan Patrol that also had a capable alternator, but my REDARC DC to DC charger was 20 amps, later upped to 25 amps.

I would not run my Lithium battery box (with a 25 amp charger) when towing the van, as the dual battery setup and a 30 amp charger in the van would satisfy my needs, adding in another 25 amps on top for the DC to DC charger in the battery box, with lights on, air con running and other power draws may just be too much. At the very least, I would need to do some detailed sums on whether the alternator can handle it all.

View: https://youtu.be/rs-YeXoDSVM

 

[Steve.B]

A video showing the impact of the DC to DC charger on your alternator. He looks at DJI, EcoFlow and Bluetti.

Fortunately for us, INEOS has put a capable alternator into the Grenadier. It should be able to handle DC to DC chargers as part of the mix. Anything up to 30 amps should not cause problems for owners, but you do need to be conscious about how many high draw devices on at once (especially accessories you added).

The risk is higher with big Lithium batteries (over 200Ah) that can draw big power when charging.

I never had any problems with the Nissan Patrol that also had a capable alternator, but my REDARC DC to DC charger was 20 amps, later upped to 25 amps.

I would not run my Lithium battery box (with a 25 amp charger) when towing the van, as the dual battery setup and a 30 amp charger in the van would satisfy my needs, adding in another 25 amps on top for the DC to DC charger in the battery box, with lights on, air con running and other power draws may just be too much. At the very least, I would need to do some detailed sums on whether the alternator can handle it all.

View: https://youtu.be/rs-YeXoDSVM

Ineos Grenadiers have a 250a alternator, and the rule of thumb as far as I can remember is the DC -DC charger amp rating should be less than 50% of the the alternator capacity, so a 250a alternator would hardly be stressed with a 40a DC - DC charger attached.

 

[Tazzieman]

In the 80s my brother told me ''the hardware man giveth , the software man taketh away''
Electrical accessories are now so numerous and power hungry , bigger batteries needed, more stress for a system designed in the past!
Things get expensive when things go wrong!

 

[TheDocAUS]

Ineos Grenadiers have a 250a alternator, and the rule of thumb as far as I can remember is the DC -DC charger amp rating should be less than 50% of the the alternator capacity, so a 250a alternator would hardly be stressed with a 40a DC - DC charger attached.

Thanks, I did see another post saying 250 amps, which is a decent alternator. But what is the power usage of say a Trialmaster? What is the overhead for accessories? I suppose with 250 amps there is room to move and just use common sense with the accessories being used at a given time.

Plus the car will probably tell you if the draw is too much. I think someone posted such a message last week concerning the 4000w inverter draw. I would need to check to be sure.

 

[anand]

50A DC-DC charging while simultaneously having the ARB twin air compressor (70ish amp actual draw) still allows it to maintain proper voltage at idle for me.

I've been running the 50A DC-DC charger for something around 20k miles at this point with no ill effects found.

Anecdotally, our Sprinter has a 250A alternator as well, from which we are running a trio of 30A DC-DC chargers in parallel. That set up has been in place for over 3 years at this point with the only caveat being that if it is hot (fans running) and it will be idling for >15 minutes (either stationary charging, or remote start, etc), I'll bump it into high idle mode (1200rpm)

 

[LeeroyJ]

I've been running the EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger for a while now (~6 months), I use it exclusively to run my EcoFlow Delta 2 Max (2400W LFP Generator). It's been flawless, but I didn't know I was supposed to be worried. When running my Grenadier, the Delta 2 Max shows that it is receiving 799 W until it gets to 100%.

After a night of camping when I've run the Delta 2 Max down (I run my fridge, Starlink, and the usb ports in my tent that generally have two iPhones connected) I can tell that the Grenadier's rpms at idol are lower, but other than that I don't see / hear any difference when driving and it is great for quickly recharging the Delta 2 Max.

I would still like to use my NATO plug to connect to the Anderson plug on my offroad trailer (that has a bank of Lithium batteries) but I need to get someone who knows what they are doing to assess if the trailer and/or the Grenadier can handle that load. Maybe not at the same time the EcoFlow Alternator Charger is running.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I've been running the EcoFlow 800W Alternator Charger for a while now (~6 months), I use it exclusively to run my EcoFlow Delta 2 Max (2400W LFP Generator). It's been flawless, but I didn't know I was supposed to be worried. When running my Grenadier, the Delta 2 Max shows that it is receiving 799 W until it gets to 100%.

After a night of camping when I've run the Delta 2 Max down (I run my fridge, Starlink, and the usb ports in my tent that generally have two iPhones connected) I can tell that the Grenadier's rpms at idol are lower, but other than that I don't see / hear any difference when driving and it is great for quickly recharging the Delta 2 Max.

I would still like to use my NATO plug to connect to the Anderson plug on my offroad trailer (that has a bank of Lithium batteries) but I need to get someone who knows what they are doing to assess if the trailer and/or the Grenadier can handle that load. Maybe not at the same time the EcoFlow Alternator Charger is running.

You don't need to be worried, just be sensible in what you do and plan ahead like you are doing.

One of the videos on this topic (DC to DC chargers), was using a car with a 70 amp alternator - hardly surprising they had issues. 250 amps gives us head room and options.

 

[XAVANLIFE]

Bonjour, quelle puissance conseillez-vous de programmé du coup pour rechargé une ecoflow delta2 ? vous pensez que l'on peux laissez 800W en configuration max ou est-il préférable de descendre un peu ? si mes calculs sont bon, 12V = 0,083A, l'ecoflow consomme au max 800 watts, 800x0,083=66,4A, donc pas de soucis pour l'alternateur de l'Inès non ? Merci de votre aide précieuse. Belle journée.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I would not run my Lithium battery box (with a 25 amp charger) when towing the van, as the dual battery setup and a 30 amp charger in the van would satisfy my needs, adding in another 25 amps on top for the DC to DC charger in the battery box, with lights on, air con running and other power draws may just be too much. At the very least, I would need to do some detailed sums on whether the alternator can handle it all.

After towing the van, it should be able to handle charging my battery box (25 amp DC to DC, with 135Ah Lithium battery) and the caravan battery (30 amp DC to DC, with 400Ah of Lithium batteries) with no issues. My only hesitation would be if both the battery box and the caravan battery were is a state of heavy discharge, drawing lots of amps to recharge. I would then track things closely to see what happens.

Both DC to DC chargers are attached to the aux battery with their own properly rated cables. The battery box and the caravan batteries only charge when the ignition is on.

If the main and aux batteries needed a good charge too, I would unplug the battery box, until the other batteries were topped up above 80%.

The caravan has 645 watts of solar and the DC to DC priorities the solar charge over 12v and 240v, even when being towed. This means less load on the alternator. The van charger only tops up from the alternator (if solar is working).

I can now mix and match as needs require.

My simple rule of thumb, be aware of the draws/load on your alternator at each stage and monitor them. When setting it up test your setup, in the field, at each stage to make sure things work well. I also actively monitor charging and usage when traveling.

The IG can sure crank out some amps to charge everything. I am not sure the Nissan Patrol could have done that.

Well done INEOS.

 

[landmannnn]

Bonjour, quelle puissance conseillez-vous de programmé du coup pour rechargé une ecoflow delta2 ? vous pensez que l'on peux laissez 800W en configuration max ou est-il préférable de descendre un peu ? si mes calculs sont bon, 12V = 0,083A, l'ecoflow consomme au max 800 watts, 800x0,083=66,4A, donc pas de soucis pour l'alternateur de l'Inès non ? Merci de votre aide précieuse. Belle journée.

Oui, 66A est correct. Pas de soucis.

 

[LeeroyJ]

Bonjour, quelle puissance conseillez-vous de programmé du coup pour rechargé une ecoflow delta2 ? vous pensez que l'on peux laissez 800W en configuration max ou est-il préférable de descendre un peu ? si mes calculs sont bon, 12V = 0,083A, l'ecoflow consomme au max 800 watts, 800x0,083=66,4A, donc pas de soucis pour l'alternateur de l'Inès non ? Merci de votre aide précieuse. Belle journée.

Google translated that for me to:

"Hello, what power do you recommend programming to recharge an ecoflow delta2? Do you think we can leave 800W in max configuration or is it better to lower it a little? If my calculations are correct, 12V = 0.083A, the ecoflow consumes a maximum of 800 watts, 800x0.083=66.4A, so no worries for the Inès alternator, right? Thank you for your precious help. Have a nice day."

Mine has been on 800W for about 10,000 miles so far, and I've not had any issues. The only thing I notice is if I am idling and have the Ecoflow Delta 2 Pro being charged at 800w, the engine rpms will drop a little. This is to be expected since the alternator is having to work harder. I would be reluctant to let it idle while charging at 800w and also using a lot of other electrical or engine draw (like aircon, spotlights, stereo, etc.).

Google traduit ma réponse comme :

"Le mien a fonctionné à 800 W pendant environ 16 000 km jusqu'à présent, et je n'ai rencontré aucun problème. Le seul problème que je remarque, c'est que si je suis au ralenti et que l'Ecoflow Delta 2 Pro est chargé à 800 W, le régime moteur baisse légèrement. C'est normal, car l'alternateur doit travailler davantage. J'hésiterais à le laisser tourner au ralenti pendant une charge à 800 W, ce qui consommerait beaucoup d'électricité ou de courant (comme la climatisation, les projecteurs, la chaîne stéréo, etc.)."

 

[Steve.B]

After towing the van, it should be able to handle charging my battery box (25 amp DC to DC, with 135Ah Lithium battery) and the caravan battery (30 amp DC to DC, with 400Ah of Lithium batteries) with no issues. My only hesitation would be if both the battery box and the caravan battery were is a state of heavy discharge, drawing lots of amps to recharge. I would then track things closely to see what happens.

Both DC to DC chargers are attached to the aux battery with their own properly rated cables. The battery box and the caravan batteries only charge when the ignition is on.

If the main and aux batteries needed a good charge too, I would unplug the battery box, until the other batteries were topped up above 80%.

The caravan has 645 watts of solar and the DC to DC priorities the solar charge over 12v and 240v, even when being towed. This means less load on the alternator. The van charger only tops up from the alternator (if solar is working).

I can now mix and match as needs require.

My simple rule of thumb, be aware of the draws/load on your alternator at each stage and monitor them. When setting it up test your setup, in the field, at each stage to make sure things work well. I also actively monitor charging and usage when traveling.

The IG can sure crank out some amps to charge everything. I am not sure the Nissan Patrol could have done that.

Well done INEOS.

Your Nissan GU Patrol would of had a 120A alternator the same size as a 76/78/79 series Land Cruiser, or Hilux or Prado, if you want to put a bigger capacity alternator in a Nissan or a Toyota to anything approaching the size of the standard INEOS alternator, you would also have to do a significant upgrade to the standard Toyota or Nissan wiring.
So as you said well done INEOS.

 

[NQ94]

Your Nissan GU Patrol would of had a 120A alternator the same size as a 76/78/79 series Land Cruiser, or Hilux or Prado, if you want to put a bigger capacity alternator in a Nissan or a Toyota to anything approaching the size of the standard INEOS alternator, you would also have to do a significant upgrade the standard Toyota or Nissan wiring.
So as you said well done INEOS.

It is an easy upgrade on the Toyotas, either 1 new cable from battery to alternator or an extra cable. The Toyota V8 alternators use a basic heat management to reduce charge rates and using a diode the alternator can be made to perform at full voltage like traditional charging systems.
The Ineos BMW charge system is fully managed by ECU so the very high charge currents will only be achievable for small amounts of time (low duty cycles), at very specific conditions and with a cooler engine compartment to prevent the alternator from overheating. The physically smaller alternators with large outputs are becoming more common because charging systems are being managed by sophisticated electronics to protect the alternator and save fuel.

 

[TheDocAUS]

A great thing about the INEOS is you save a lot of money, because you do not need to upgrade as many things, to go remote. When working out costs I factored this in. For example, you get braided brake lines, genuine off road tyres, air/oil "catch can" and a water/diesel separator (AU model) to name a few things. I would have to but all those things with the Nissan or Toyota.

 

[Znarfgh]

I currently run a 40A DC-DC charger in the Grenadier to charge the 100Ah LiFePO4 battery in a box. I also have a rear Anderson plug that charges the van which has a 20A DC-DC charger for 200Ah of LiFePO4 batteries. No issues that I am aware of.

Not sure what the Redarc system in your van will draw and I assume you have 400Ah of LiFePO4 batteries in the van. Plus, your Redarc Manager system will prioritise solar input over alternator charging and if you have the roof mounted panels on your van that should also minimise what the DC-DC portion of the Redarc Manager draws from the alternator.

 

[Tom D]

I have a 30A DC-DC charger on the camper trailer, I haven't had time to record any data as yet on how much it is drawing. It is working ok though...
I'll post something when I have the chance.

 

[TheDocAUS]

I currently run a 40A DC-DC charger in the Grenadier to charge the 100Ah LiFePO4 battery in a box. I also have a rear Anderson plug that charges the van which has a 20A DC-DC charger for 200Ah of LiFePO4 batteries. No issues that I am aware of.

Not sure what the Redarc system in your van will draw and I assume you have 400Ah of LiFePO4 batteries in the van. Plus, your Redarc Manager system will prioritise solar input over alternator charging and if you have the roof mounted panels on your van that should also minimise what the DC-DC portion of the Redarc Manager draws from the alternator.

The van has a REDARC Project Manager 30 with the Prime and Rogue TVMS'. 400Ah of Invicta Black Lithium batteries.