Can't go taller - Going wider

[JesseRohr]

Ah the wide verses narrow discussion
Wide creates more resistance in soft stuff, fact
Narrow verse wide when deflated makes virtually no difference because the length of the tread is what creates floatation not width.
There is plenty of science backed and actual comparison tests on the net so do your own research
Wide looks way cooler and better for pulling the chicks when cruising the mall…

There was no discussion as I laid out my needs at the beginning of the thread that taller wasn't an option due to restraints.

 

[ECrider]

Would wider whether inflated or deflated not offer more of a contact patch from the beginning? Perhaps not a game changer in sand but clay/mud would probably offer an advantage?

 

[MattA]

There was no discussion as I laid out my needs at the beginning of the thread that taller wasn't an option due to restraints.

But you want to go wider to get better performance off road…
Wider off road is worse not better, you mentioned really soft sand, go lower pressure, soft stuff I go straight to 15 psi front and 18 rear, if it’s really soft I then go down from there and drive accordingly, that’s in a fully kitted out touring room g that weighs over 3 ton
If really soft is a regular thing go a set of bead locks and you will be better off
If your hellbent on wider as many are ask yourself why and I bet it’s because you think it looks better if you’re honest with yourself, each to their own
I go function over everything else, especially looks

 

[JesseRohr]

But you want to go wider to get better performance off road…
Wider off road is worse not better, you mentioned really soft sand, go lower pressure, soft stuff I go straight to 15 psi front and 18 rear, if it’s really soft I then go down from there and drive accordingly, that’s in a fully kitted out touring room g that weighs over 3 ton
If really soft is a regular thing go a set of bead locks and you will be better off
If your hellbent on wider as many are ask yourself why and I bet it’s because you think it looks better if you’re honest with yourself, each to their own
I go function over everything else, especially looks

I disagree both in theory and in my own real world experience. You’re entitled to your own opinion but please don’t solicit it here as fact when it is not.

 

[MattA]

Just trying to help with information, did you watch the video? There are also 100’s of other comparisons on the net but that’s ok you do you

 

[DaveB]

As above, why anyone would go 18 inch rims over 17’s on a 4wd is beyond me

The good part also with the factory alloy options was that the 17" looked much better than the 18" rims.
If they did them the other way around I would have had to go with the steelies and then go aftermarket.

 

[DaveB]

I bet a lot of people still go the wide tire even after watching that video with all the fact not just opinion shown clearly

This one from Robert is also very good.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spOUcaUzIHY

 

[MattA]

This one from Robert is also very good.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spOUcaUzIHY

I have seen that one before, over many years of 4wding I have studied, experienced, seen and discussed this topic many times, the outcome is always the same in practice and discussion always goes the same way with some

 

[Commodore]

I disagree both in theory and in my own real world experience. You’re entitled to your own opinion but please don’t solicit it here as fact when it is not.

You are welcome to disagree with wide vs narrow or believe that the world is flat but both are settled science at this point.

 

[Tinerfeño]

The good part also with the factory alloy options was that the 17" looked much better than the 18" rims.
If they did them the other way around I would have had to go with the steelies and then go aftermarket.

My Grenadier had 18" alloys but I changed them to 17" steel wheels at purchase. My experience is that steel wheels are more reliable in off-road. We have couple of times repaired dents in bead ares (causing leaks) on-site. Only once steel wheel has failed completely being irrepairable.

 

[Tinerfeño]

Would wider whether inflated or deflated not offer more of a contact patch from the beginning?

The wider tyre will have wider wall of sand in front of tyre causing higher resistance and tendency to dig in. It's not just calculated pressure that counts.

 

[JesseRohr]

The wider tyre will have wider wall of sand in front of tyre causing higher resistance and tendency to dig in. It's not just calculated pressure that counts.

Traction and Grip:
Wider tires provide a larger area of contact with the ground, increasing the surface area for traction. This is particularly beneficial when aired down, as it allows for a larger contact patch and reduces the amount of pressure per square inch, which can be crucial for off-road performance. Especially so in loose terrain and soft packed surfaces like snow. That's why you see giant tires on things traversing arctic terrains. This is also why you see wider rear tires on things in primarily sand.

We run several race teams in the off road corridor. We have never opted for height over width in any of our race vehicles. Ultra4 or Score. It simply doesn't work.

 

[MattA]

Just get rid of the wanky 18’s if your serious about off roading which will help heaps
Also keeping in mind the BFG has one of if not the strongest and stiffest side wall so you need to air down lower than other brands for the equivalent effect, something crap like Coopers will be at least 10% difference in pressure for the same deflation- deformation

 

[Commodore]

Traction and Grip:
Wider tires provide a larger area of contact with the ground, increasing the surface area for traction. This is particularly beneficial when aired down, as it allows for a larger contact patch and reduces the amount of pressure per square inch, which can be crucial for off-road performance. Especially so in loose terrain and soft packed surfaces like snow. That's why you see giant tires on things traversing arctic terrains. This is also why you see wider rear tires on things in primarily sand.

We run several race teams in the off road corridor. We have never opted for height over width in any of our race vehicles. Ultra4 or Score. It simply doesn't work.

Score and Ultra4 are very different use cases than using a Grenadier on trails or a beach. Just look at the difference in speed and vehicles. You also aren't using DOT legal tires. Truly apples and oranges but you do you.

 

[Zimm]

Some thoughts on all the comments.


If float is your goal, the wide tire in the same radius is better than a the same tire diameter in narrow. So, if the surface is fluid, like mud sand and powder (think iceland) then you go for width as well as radius. I live on the east coast, and for me at some point offroad, albeit due to sand or a muddy field, a little bit of float to keep the diffs from bogging in, is appreciated.

Then there's navigating ruts, especially wet ruts. The wider tire increases the opportunity for the tire to catch a surface with traction along the bottom and the sides. If you're stuck in the worn smooth center of a rut, you move your wheel to and fro in hopes of catching something, which is made all the more easier with a slightly wider tire.

Any testing on a flat, hard surface produces useless data for offloading. I give a shit about my contact patch on pavement when I'm in a dragster, not an offroad buggy. In addition, if deformation is the only test, then you're only good for a dry day in Utah. I need a well rounded tire.

In the end, the idea a "skinny" is better than a "wide" is kinda the new fad, but in reality, it's about the variety of offroad surfaces you think you'll encounter during the life of the tire, and the size and weight of the rig. In the pursuit of durability, we all seem to error on the side of too stiff sidewalls. It's a reasonable sacrifice.

If given the option of 17" or 18" offroad, I'll take 17. But, say I already have 31's on an 18" that I like, when going to 35's, you're really not talking that much of a discernible difference in performance. Considering all the other limitations of driving an overweight SUV, and overland not being a race, you guys criticizing this fella for choosing 18's is really being pedantic, or pedan'dick', as the case may be. You're not going anywhere on 17's he can't achieve on 18's.

 

[DaveB]

You are welcome to disagree with wide vs narrow or believe that the world is flat but both are settled science at this point.

Just because it is a fact doesn't make it real if you don't want to believe it.

 

[Zimm]

Not to mention some stand off for the body. Aesthetically I like it when everything lines up, but that extra 1.5-2" of poke beyond the fender, has saved me from damage more times than I can count.

 

[DaveB]

Not to mention some stand off for the body. Aesthetically I like it when everything lines up, but that extra 1.5-2" of poke beyond the fender, has saved me from damage more times than I can count.

It would get you a defected vehicle in Australia.
Not to mention a lot of stone chips down the side of the vehicle from our gravel roads

 

[Zimm]

It would get you a defected vehicle in Australia.
Not to mention a lot of stone chips down the side of the vehicle from our gravel roads

That’s what flaps are for. Beats having a stone or root crunch your sheet metal or blast out a window.


There’re plenty of options available here that aren’t open to OZers. You seem to suffer thru it alright though.

 

[MattA]

I have been reported, apparently my wording is offensive
I apologise for any offence taken and will bow out, each to their own