BMW Shifter

[Tazzieman]

I suggest a 'Pimp Your Shifter' thread. Not only that it might yield interesting variations of that shifter, it will as well be a source of entertainment for all of us.

An excellent idea! That should unearth all the closet crocheters , the mosaicists , the painters and those that have to have everything hewn from billet alloy, with a taint of tactical. So some camo as well.
Or just pop your Heisenberg hat over it

 

[bemax]

I remember an interesting version in a car from James May, which was donated by his beloved colleagues…

 

[emax]

If pimping your shifter then what about a condom. Dust proof and thin enough to get full feeling of the haptic buttons

I already suggested so. ;-)

 

[OGrid]

I agree with the original premise of the thread: the BMW shifter does not fit well with the overall ethos of the Grenadier, nor does it fit well visually in the cabin.

I think the ethos of the Grenadier calls for a manual transmission, but I'm not going to grind that axe. It is pointless, and non-productive.

However, I still think Ineos could have done better than the BMW shifter, and provided a shifter that is more mechanical and less electronic. Yes, yes, I know that even the "more mechanical" automatic shifters use electronics, but there is a difference between a BMW shifter and some of the other auto shifters on the market. Take the Jeep JL Wrangler shifter as an example of a "more mechanical" shifter: both the Grenadier and the Jeep use the ZF 8-speed automatic transmission, but the Jeep's shifter moves, and has positive engagement when you go into gear. It is very tactile, feels more mechanical, and is more obviously in whatever gear (park/drive/reverse) you select. Also, if you click it over to the left, you go into "manual shift" mode, and the manual shifts are crisp, with positive physical feedback (haptics) to the driver.

Both in terms of aesthetics (less important), and in terms of physical feedback and mechanical feel (more important), I think Ineos should have developed their own shifter (or borrowed one from Jeep). I am not suggesting "Jeep is better than Grenadier" or any nonsense like that, so let's not go down that rabbit hole. I just agree with the OP that the BMW shifter is out of place in the Grenadier.

Good comments. Spot on.

The Grenadier will be the first vehicle I have owned that is not a manual transmission. A sad day. Even my previous LR3 was a manual transmission (yes, they existed. With coil springs as well. Factory)

Toyota recognises there is still a place for manual transmissions and recently announced a manual transmission for their Supra sports car, as an option to the existing automatic.

Still can’t clutch start a vehicle with an automatic transmission - that I’m aware of.

OG.

 

[Tazzieman]

I used to diss auto transmissions as trans for lazy people , but I got over that 25 years ago.
I had 80 series Landcruisers , manual and auto and they towed some heavy loads, in hilly country. Never found any problem with the auto version.
And that was 25 years ago. Things have moved on. I'm old but not a dinosaur.
Oh and my auto W108 don't have a torque converter , and you can run start it
No excuses for a flat starter battery these days anyway.

 

[emax]

I not only got used to auto transmissions, I don't really want anything else any more.

This might be due to the traffic situation in Germany: stop & go, traffic lights, jams, it's a mess. But even on long travels (1000km one leg) I have found an auto transmission a very helpful extra.

The only drawback for me is a slightly higher consumption. But modern transmissions (as opposed to my 22 yr. old 5-gear box in the W203) are much better in that regard.

In general, auto transmissions protect the entire drive train from rough load changes which contributes to longevity. And an 8-gear auto transmission will mostly operate in the best revs vs. torque vs. fuel burn range. All in all I think it's a good concept, in particular with modern versions like the ZF in the Grenadier.

But the biggest advantage is IMHO that automatic transmission automatically switches gears upon cruise control if it goes hill up and down. Carefree cruising, I love it.

 

[Shaky]

Good comments. Spot on.

The Grenadier will be the first vehicle I have owned that is not a manual transmission. A sad day. Even my previous LR3 was a manual transmission (yes, they existed. With coil springs as well. Factory)

Toyota recognises there is still a place for manual transmissions and recently announced a manual transmission for their Supra sports car, as an option to the existing automatic.

Still can’t clutch start a vehicle with an automatic transmission - that I’m aware of.

OG.

I am willing to bet that it won’t be seen as such a bad day after three months of driving it. The amount of people I have seen virtually being dragged into the drivers seat of an auto and then a week later you almost have to winch them out of the vehicle.

on or off road I think they are better than an auto. The only time I would prefer a manual would be if I was driving hammer down on some nice country roads. Even then most cars you would want to do that in have a manual option on their auto box anyway.…best of both worlds !

 

[stickshifter]

I wrote in my original post: "I think the ethos of the Grenadier calls for a manual transmission, but I'm not going to grind that axe. It is pointless, and non-productive."

I am 99% certain that Ineos is not going to build a manual transmission for the Grenadier, which is why I'm not really interested in debates around which is better on-road / better off-road / more convenient / more reliable / more authentic / more fun / more connected with the vehicle - or any of that stuff.

There are positive and negative attributes associated with both manual and automatic transmissions. So it comes down to which set of attributes one prioritizes when one forms their personal preference. I also fully understand why many people prefer the auto. I'm just thankful that Ineos went with ZF, which is the first auto I have ever considered owning.

 

[rovie]

I wrote in my original post: "I think the ethos of the Grenadier calls for a manual transmission, but I'm not going to grind that axe. It is pointless, and non-productive."

I am 99% certain that Ineos is not going to build a manual transmission for the Grenadier, which is why I'm not really interested in debates around which is better on-road / better off-road / more convenient / more reliable / more authentic / more fun / more connected with the vehicle - or any of that stuff.

There are positive and negative attributes associated with both manual and automatic transmissions. So it comes down to which set of attributes one prioritizes when one forms their personal preference. I also fully understand why many people prefer the auto. I'm just thankful that Ineos went with ZF, which is the first auto I have ever considered owning.

I completely agree with you there. The ZF transmission is not the worst. After all, ZF already has a few years of experience in building transmissions.

 

[stickshifter]

I completely agree with you there. The ZF transmission is not the worst. After all, ZF already has a few years of experience in building transmissions.

Just based on some test drives (not ownership) - I think the ZF 8-speed is brilliant! It seems to shift when I want it to, the shifts are quick and seamless, and it doesn't hunt around for gears the way many others do (e.g. the Ford/GM 10-speed). But I don't have a lot to compare it to. Our 4-Runner is the first auto in the family (my wife also preferred manuals until very recently), and the 5-speed in the 4-Runner is a dinosaur. Other than that, the only autos I've driven are rentals. I would guess that there are some excellent autos in various sports cars, but when it comes to 4-wheel drive trucks, the ZF stands out.

 

[rovie]

Just based on some test drives (not ownership) - I think the ZF 8-speed is brilliant! It seems to shift when I want it to, the shifts are quick and seamless, and it doesn't hunt around for gears the way many others do (e.g. the Ford/GM 10-speed). But I don't have a lot to compare it to. Our 4-Runner is the first auto in the family (my wife also preferred manuals until very recently), and the 5-speed in the 4-Runner is a dinosaur. Other than that, the only autos I've driven are rentals. I would guess that there are some excellent autos in various sports cars, but when it comes to 4-wheel drive trucks, the ZF stands out.

My wife is very happy with the gearbox in her Discovery 4. It is already the adaptive 8-speed automatic transmission ZF 8HP70. Before the 2012 model year, the 6-speed automatic transmission ZF HP28 was installed.
My wife thinks the gearshifts very smooth.
I usually drive a manual transmission. But whenever I drive my wife's Disco, I want to move the lever. It always takes me a while to get used to it.

 

[stickshifter]

My wife is very happy with the gearbox in her Discovery 4. It is already the adaptive 8-speed automatic transmission ZF 8HP70. Before the 2012 model year, the 6-speed automatic transmission ZF HP28 was installed.
My wife thinks the gearshifts very smooth.
I usually drive a manual transmission. But whenever I drive my wife's Disco, I want to move the lever. It always takes me a while to get used to it.

In my wife's truck, I end up mashing my left foot onto the floor when I come to a red light

 

[Jeremy996]

I have had a few conversations with people at Ineos and the gist was there will never be a manual Grenadier; the type approval costs for such a marginal selling vehicle would be prohibitive, (£Millions+).

The shifter is part of the integrated engine/gearbox combination and any changes would require a full validation and test regime; again £Millions for a marginal change. You will find the same shifter in the various Morgan +4s and +6s for much the same reason, (not enough sales volume to amortise the massive cost to change).

 

[stickshifter]

I have had a few conversations with people at Ineos and the gist was there will never be a manual Grenadier; the type approval costs for such a marginal selling vehicle would be prohibitive, (£Millions+).

The shifter is part of the integrated engine/gearbox combination and any changes would require a full validation and test regime; again £Millions for a marginal change. You will find the same shifter in the various Morgan +4s and +6s for much the same reason, (not enough sales volume to amortise the massive cost to change).

Yeah, I think anyone who is paying attention to trends in driving recognizes that there won't be a manual Grenadier. This is a couple of years old, and I think the overall manual take-rate in the U.S. is closer to 1% now.

Regarding the auto-shifter: I was thinking that the shifter goes to the transmission, not the engine, so it would be transmission-specific (as opposed to engine-specific), but all the electronics are interconnected these days, so the shifter may well-be engine-specific too. When I was thinking that the shifter was just transmission-specific, I was thinking that Ineos should have borrowed a shifter from Jeep, or some other vehicle. Borrowing a shifter from some other source would not require any additional validation or testing. The auto-shifter in Wrangler & Gladiators moves, and it engages with park, drive, reverse with positive physical feedback. Jeep uses the same transmissions as the Grenadier: 8HP51 for the 3.6 Pentastar, and 8HP76 for the 3.0 Ecodiesel - so it seemed that there were other options for the "simple as possible" Grenadier besides the BMW shifter - which doesn't seem all that simple to me.

But I think we can realistically say that nothing in the Grenadier drive-train is going to change for the coming model years, so we're really just spinning our wheels here - so I'm off to a barbecue! Happy Labor Day!

 

[DCPU]

That should unearth all the closet crocheters...

Anybody remember these?

big knit

www.innocentdrinks.co.uk

 

[Camskii]

I honestly don't get why people are getting their knickers in a twist over it. Compared to the one in my Everest at the moment ( which is the most banal design in history) I think the BMW one looks pretty good

 

[stickshifter]

Its not about the looks (though the looks are a bit incongruous with the rest of the interior design), but the electronics, in what is advertised as a "return to analogue" vehicle. From my first post on the topic:

However, I still think Ineos could have done better than the BMW shifter, and provided a shifter that is more mechanical and less electronic. Yes, yes, I know that even the "more mechanical" automatic shifters use electronics, but there is a difference between a BMW shifter and some of the other auto shifters on the market. Take the Jeep JL Wrangler shifter as an example of a "more mechanical" shifter: both the Grenadier and the Jeep use the ZF 8-speed automatic transmission, but the Jeep's shifter moves, and has positive engagement when you go into gear. It is very tactile, feels more mechanical, and is more obviously in whatever gear (park/drive/reverse) you select. Also, if you click it over to the left, you go into "manual shift" mode, and the manual shifts are crisp, with positive physical feedback (haptics) to the driver.

But I think we all recognize that Ineos is not going to change the shifter now, so I suggest we move on to more interesting topics!

 

[Guru]

Camskii…… you are somewhat exaggerating to suggest “people getting their knickers in a twist”.

For me it’s a mere meandering of desire to have a more rugged/mechanical type of shifter rather than some “city slicker” ultra modern one. I have experience of the BMW shifter in my X5 and it’s was horrible to use.
I’m far from a Luddite (own an electric Land Rover series conversion company) but in my opinion it’s an incongruous part of the Grenadier. I totally understand the logic and commercial decision.

 

[MileHigh]

To me it was “Oh look, my wife’s’ SAV X5 shifter….”. More an oddity than anything- and like I said, I have shift-anxiety with it. I guess I shouldn’t complain, it could be those god awful fidget spinners that Chrysler uses as a ‘shifter’…

Yes, the Jeep Wrangler transmission set up is superior to the BMW version. But I’d MUCH rather have the B58 than whatever minivan monstrosity that Fiat is shoving into Jeeps.. now a 392 V8… that is a different story- and probably my true offset option to the IG. I know not the same vehicles, but really that last of their breeds. 2023 is probably the 392s last year…

 

[ECrider]

Never driven a BMW with this electronic shifter. Had a look around on Youtube for some examples on how it functions. One thing that wasn't clear is if you have the car in D or R and open the drivers door while foot off the brake then it automatically goes into P - the chap also mentioned something about seatbelt being fastened or not but didn't really clarify. Guess those that have experience may know what I'm talking about!
It's rare but I sometimes open the door to see what I'm going over or towards - hence the question.