Night heater/diesel heater

[aylestage]

has one anyone heard if Ineos are offering a diesel heater as an option? for heating the cabin and engine coolant in poor weather conditions without running the engine?

 

[Stu_Barnes]

They're having a heated front windscreen as standard fitment, or at least it seems that they are. So the idea of a diesel heater shouldn't be too far out there, fingers crossed. 

If they don't then I hope they leave enough space in the engine bay to install one. 

 

[aylestage]

I would like to think so, especially as the vehicle is likely to be used in very cold countries as well as areas which suffer from high snow fall here in the UK such as scotland etc

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

A non-engined cabin heater is almost unheard of in my part of the world, and we know cold (Canada - it's -30 Celsius outside my window right now). 

It's not to say one wouldn't be useful, but I do think they are offering heated seats and perhaps a heated steering wheel. Between those features, and a Command Start function which can easily be added factory or aftermarket, a person has all they really need to make a cabin perfectly comfortable. The command start has the added bonus of warming up the drivetrain, which is much better on the longevity of the machine too. A command start likely uses more fuel than a dedicated diesel heater, but it's for a very short period of time (my current vehicle maxes out at 20 minutes of idling). 

In order to reduce difficulty with cold starts, we use two other products - one of which is a legally required factory option, the other aftermarket. A block heater means that we can plug our vehicles into our houses and a small electrical element heats up the engine block to make cold starts much easier. You cannot legally buy a new car in my province without one. The second product is a battery blanket - essentially, this is a heated blanket that wraps around the battery. Both of these can go to the same plug so just one plug-in and cold starts are very easy, even in extreme cold. 

And all that being said - My truck starts up just fine even in -30 to -40 Celsius without being plugged in. Most modern vehicles do. The diesel is an interesting case but I have to assume it will come with glow plugs for cold weather starts (it won't be available in North America so I've not thought much about it).

In sum:

- For comfort, heated seats and steering wheel are superior to a forced air heater and probably good enough.
- If one wants a forced air heater, you might as well run the engine and heat up the entire vehicle to operating temps.
- There are plenty of cold weather assistance products for folks who need them that are "nice to haves".

 

[stickshifter]

A non-engined cabin heater is almost unheard of in my part of the world, and we know cold (Canada - it's -30 Celsius outside my window right now). 

It's not to say one wouldn't be useful, but I do think they are offering heated seats and perhaps a heated steering wheel. Between those features, and a Command Start function which can easily be added factory or aftermarket, a person has all they really need to make a cabin perfectly comfortable. The command start has the added bonus of warming up the drivetrain, which is much better on the longevity of the machine too. A command start likely uses more fuel than a dedicated diesel heater, but it's for a very short period of time (my current vehicle maxes out at 20 minutes of idling). 

In order to reduce difficulty with cold starts, we use two other products - one of which is a legally required factory option, the other aftermarket. A block heater means that we can plug our vehicles into our houses and a small electrical element heats up the engine block to make cold starts much easier. You cannot legally buy a new car in my province without one. The second product is a battery blanket - essentially, this is a heated blanket that wraps around the battery. Both of these can go to the same plug so just one plug-in and cold starts are very easy, even in extreme cold. 

And all that being said - My truck starts up just fine even in -30 to -40 Celsius without being plugged in. Most modern vehicles do. The diesel is an interesting case but I have to assume it will come with glow plugs for cold weather starts (it won't be available in North America so I've not thought much about it).

In sum:

- For comfort, heated seats and steering wheel are superior to a forced air heater and probably good enough.
- If one wants a forced air heater, you might as well run the engine and heat up the entire vehicle to operating temps.
- There are plenty of cold weather assistance products for folks who need them that are "nice to haves".

I also live somewhere cold. Its -20 to -28 Fahrenheit (equivalent to -29 to -33 Celsius) most mornings for about three months - see photo below from our outdoor/indoor thermometer. In one of the videos I watched they said the Grenadier would not be coming with "unnecessary" things like a heated steering wheel. The video was from Australia - which might explain the notion that a heated steering wheel is an unnecessary luxury ?

I emailed Ineos to ask that a heated steering wheel be an option in the Grenadier. If this is important to you - you should do the same!

 

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I also live somewhere cold. Its -20 to -28 Fahrenheit (equivalent to -29 to -33 Celsius) most mornings for about three months - see photo below from our outdoor/indoor thermometer. In one of the videos I watched they said the Grenadier would not be coming with "unnecessary" things like a heated steering wheel. The video was from Australia - which might explain the notion that a heated steering wheel is an unnecessary luxury ?

I emailed Ineos to ask that a heated steering wheel be an option in the Grenadier. If this is important to you - you should do the same!

 

I didn't realize they had nixed the steering wheel - the seats are for sure an option I remember seeing and I may have actually just assumed they'd throw in the wheel too as now that I think of it, I don't actually know where I heard that this was an option. Honestly, I don't REALLY need one - in the temps that you and I live in, gloves are not an option, they are a requirement -- so the heated steering wheel is of limited usefulness relative to the seats in terms of "feeling" warm in the cabin. 

But...safari windows in the roof are unnecessary too. My grenadier will have them though! I think the only thing better than a saddle leather steering wheel is a heated saddle leather steering wheel!

 

[stickshifter]

P.S. We also plug our vehicles in over night (engine block heater). As an aside, the 4.0 V6 in the 4Runner (also found in the 2nd Gen Tacoma, and in the FJ Cruiser) starts great in the cold without being plugged in; the new 3.5 V6 in the 3rd Gen Tacoma does not start so well at temps below -10 F. Yeah, it starts, but it screams like a tortured animal.

Does anyone have any experience with the BMW B58 in really cold weather?

 

[stickshifter]

I didn't realize they had nixed the steering wheel - the seats are for sure an option I remember seeing and I may have actually just assumed they'd throw in the wheel too as now that I think of it, I don't actually know where I heard that this was an option. Honestly, I don't REALLY need one - in the temps that you and I live in, gloves are not an option, they are a requirement -- so the heated steering wheel is of limited usefulness relative to the seats in terms of "feeling" warm in the cabin. 

But...safari windows in the roof are unnecessary too. My grenadier will have them though! I think the only thing better than a saddle leather steering wheel is a heated saddle leather steering wheel!

Aaargh! My fingers were freezing this morning after scraping off the truck, and they seemed to get colder as I drove. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to ski - talk about first world problems! Apparently I'm not 25-years old anymore... If the Grenadier doesn't come with a heated steering wheel I'm going to see what I can find in the aftermarket, or I'll wrap the wheel with a wire direct from the battery and hope for the best ?

 

[aylestage]

I have been in the grenadier on an off road tour here in the UK, the one I was in had heated front seats, independently switched from the front console. I am not sure the back ones were heated, and I am reasonably sure the steering wheel was not heated. Whether there will be an option I don't know. 

I haven't come across any vehicles here in the UK that you can plug into your electric supply and it runs a block heater. Quite a good idea providing you have electric where you park up. My old Land rover discovery 4 had a diesel heater which for me was a better option as you could use it where ever you were. I think it was an Eberspacher but i am not certain.

Some lorries/trucks/HGV's here in the UK are fitted with night heaters, but as far as i know they are all diesel powered ones, and they are designed to keep the driver warm at night when he/she is using the sleeper cabin. I dont think they heat the engine as well.... but I might wrong!

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Aaargh! My fingers were freezing this morning after scraping off the truck, and they seemed to get colder as I drove. I was worried that I wouldn't be able to ski - talk about first world problems! Apparently I'm not 25-years old anymore... If the Grenadier doesn't come with a heated steering wheel I'm going to see what I can find in the aftermarket, or I'll wrap the wheel with a wire direct from the battery and hope for the best ?

If wrapping the wheel works, make sure you order extra wire and sell it for a few hundred bucks per "kit" ?

Jokes aside an aftermarket solution is a good idea - a quick search of Amazon shows a few dozen options, but they are all the "slip on" style, with I loathe - they create an awful hand-feel when driving because the slip on ones inevitably have edges to them that I find really uncomfortable on my hands. But, I do actually quite like the older style, lace-on steering wheel covers (had one on my first car as the wheel was all cracked). They fit far more snugly and feel just like a proper wheel; you can't even really tell there's a cover on them. I'm sure that someone out there has a heated version. 

I have been in the grenadier on an off road tour here in the UK, the one I was in had heated front seats, independently switched from the front console. I am not sure the back ones were heated, and I am reasonably sure the steering wheel was not heated. Whether there will be an option I don't know. 

I haven't come across any vehicles here in the UK that you can plug into your electric supply and it runs a block heater. Quite a good idea providing you have electric where you park up. My old Land rover discovery 4 had a diesel heater which for me was a better option as you could use it where ever you were. I think it was an Eberspacher but i am not certain.

Some lorries/trucks/HGV's here in the UK are fitted with night heaters, but as far as i know they are all diesel powered ones, and they are designed to keep the driver warm at night when he/she is using the sleeper cabin. I dont think they heat the engine as well.... but I might wrong!

A heated back seat will be important for me in a few years (I have a young son). But, the only off-road capable rig that I know of that has heated rear-seats (and granted, I've not looked super closely at this feature) is the New Defender. However, my plan is to use a "Katskin" seat cover on the rear - it will help protect the seat and you can get them with heating elements. They aren't cheap, but the end result appears to be OEM in most cases.

The block heaters are very much a North American fixation, and even at that, they are rare in a lot of North America too -- even in Southern Ontario, Canada, I would have people very perplexed when I would plug in my car; on more than one occasion people thought I had an electric vehicle (Yeah, I know) when they saw the extension cord coiled around the bull bar. They are super common out west and, as @stickshifter has said, super common in the more mountainous areas of the Northwest. They are also fairly easy to add as an aftermarket accessory, but as you said you do need to have electricity handy to run them.  The diesel cabin heater is a neat idea, and one I will explore further.

In my experience most well maintained engines will do an extreme cold start - though some do scream like banshees - provided the battery is in good shape and can produce the cranking amps over a period of time. Batteries often give up the ghost in cold weather, so a sustained 15-30 second attempt at starting, which is sometimes necessary to get the engine to turn over, just isn't possible and they fizzle out. 

Cold starts in Diesels are another thing entirely - there are stories of truckers in Russia on the Road of Bones lighting fires under their side-mounted diesel tanks overnight to keep the diesel fuel liquid (at extreme cold temps it gels). I have to wonder how many trucks have burnt because of that practice but you do what you gotta do I guess!

 

[stickshifter]

[/QUOTE]

Cold starts in Diesels are another thing entirely - there are stories of truckers in Russia on the Road of Bones lighting fires under their side-mounted diesel tanks overnight to keep the diesel fuel liquid (at extreme cold temps it gels). I have to wonder how many trucks have burnt because of that practice but you do what you gotta do I guess!

Ohhh, not just in Russia! When I hitch-hiked across Tibet back in 1995, we lit a fire underneath the engine of our big diesel every morning! ?
I'd post photos but they are all in slide format, not digital. A quote I just found online: "We’ve all seen photo slides in our grandparents’ houses or in school classrooms."  Ouch, that hurts.

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

Ohhh, not just in Russia! When I hitch-hiked across Tibet back in 1995, we lit a fire underneath the engine of our big diesel every morning! ?
I'd post photos but they are all in slide format, not digital. A quote I just found online: "We’ve all seen photo slides in our grandparents’ houses or in school classrooms."  Ouch, that hurts.

What's a slide?

?

Kidding - my dad has a bunch of photos on slides but I'm one of the earliest Millennials (mid-80s birthday) so I got to live through the death of film and the rise of digital before I could afford cameras. Also a few years back we got him a digitizer that will automatically scan slides - well worth it to save those photos, and I'd bet the same applies to you as hitchhiking through Tibet sounds incredible - what an amazing experience. I'd love to hear more about it, and you just gave me an idea for a new OT thread!

 

[stickshifter]

What's a slide?

?

Kidding - my dad has a bunch of photos on slides but I'm one of the earliest Millennials (mid-80s birthday) so I got to live through the death of film and the rise of digital before I could afford cameras. Also a few years back we got him a digitizer that will automatically scan slides - well worth it to save those photos, and I'd bet the same applies to you as hitchhiking through Tibet sounds incredible - what an amazing experience. I'd love to hear more about it, and you just gave me an idea for a new OT thread!

I've been meaning to digitize the slides, but there are so many. I worked and traveled in Asia for two years in the mid-1990s, and shot about 100 rolls of film (about 35 photos per roll). Then I was back for another year in 2001-2002, again shooting slides.

Just one story (the short version): I was with my girlfriend in Kashmir on 9/11. After word got out, various militant groups took to the streets. We got out of town, and headed up to climb Nun, figuring it was safer above 5,000 meters than on the streets of Kargil (site of war between India and Pakistan in 1999). After climbing the peak, we came back down, but it was still super-sketchy. So, to avoid the roads, we ended up trekking from the area around Nun to Leh (capital of Ladakh), which is a predominantly Buddhist region - and much safer. We were able to get a flight out of Leh, and headed to Nepal. Lots of adventures...

A view of Nun from the air (thanks to Wikipedia):

 

[ChasingOurTrunks]

I've been meaning to digitize the slides, but there are so many. I worked and traveled in Asia for two years in the mid-1990s, and shot about 100 rolls of film (about 35 photos per roll). Then I was back for another year in 2001-2002, again shooting slides.

Just one story (the short version): I was with my girlfriend in Kashmir on 9/11. After word got out, various militant groups took to the streets. We got out of town, and headed up to climb Nun, figuring it was safer above 5,000 meters than on the streets of Kargil (site of war between India and Pakistan in 1999). To avoid the roads, we ended up trekking from Nun to Leh (capital of Ladakh), which is a predominantly Buddhist region, and then by air to Nepal. Lots of adventures...

A view of Nun from the air (thanks to Wikipedia):

Very cool experience. That would have been a scary time to be away from home for a lot of reasons but that's a good place to be "away" in based on the photos! The added dynamic of geopolitics always makes for unpredictable adventures; I spent some time in the Middle East around when the Iraq war was getting going. Lots of smuggling and nervous people at checkpoints, that's for sure, that culminated in a bit of a shouting match and gun-pointing by the Jordanian army as they thought I was a suicide bomber at one particular checkpoint on my way to Petra. After nearly pissing myself and just saying "I'm sorry, I'm a Canadian" about a hundred times with my hands sticking out the window of my rental car, they calmed down and realized I wasn't a bomber, just a moron, and they invited me in for tea ? -- Mid-30s me looks back on 19-year old me and sometimes says "Huh....You could have made better choices that time!"

 

[stickshifter]

Very cool experience. That would have been a scary time to be away from home for a lot of reasons but that's a good place to be "away" in based on the photos! The added dynamic of geopolitics always makes for unpredictable adventures; I spent some time in the Middle East around when the Iraq war was getting going. Lots of smuggling and nervous people at checkpoints, that's for sure, that culminated in a bit of a shouting match and gun-pointing by the Jordanian army as they thought I was a suicide bomber at one particular checkpoint on my way to Petra. After nearly pissing myself and just saying "I'm sorry, I'm a Canadian" about a hundred times with my hands sticking out the window of my rental car, they calmed down and realized I wasn't a bomber, just a moron, and they invited me in for tea ? -- Mid-30s me looks back on 19-year old me and sometimes says "Huh....You could have made better choices that time!"

I think we did something similar! Our taxi was coming into the airport in New Delhi a little too hot (we were late for our flight), and the soldiers guarding the roadblock outside the airport gave us the same treatment. But these are the experiences that make travel so memorable and so rich. Everyday things are new. Its so easy to get trapped in routine in our everyday lives. Thanks for sharing your story! I'm looking forward to checking out your videos at the new thread on travel adventure!

 

[AZGrenadier]

We were on our honeymoon in Germany over 9/11.  Things definitely changed from one day to the next.  So much more military and passport checking after.  Crazy thing was BBC was reporting "about time something like this happened in America".  Very surreal. 

 

[stickshifter]

We were on our honeymoon in Germany over 9/11.  Things definitely changed from one day to the next.  So much more military and passport checking after.  Crazy thing was BBC was reporting "about time something like this happened in America".  Very surreal. 

Its hard being abroad at a time of national tragedy. And that sounds like really unfortunate wording and tone from the BBC. I would guess that they were referring to the relative lack terrorist attacks in the U.S. (i.e. on American soil) from foreign-based organizations (i.e. non-domestic terrorist groups) compared to what many European countries had experienced. Which would have been an accurate observation at the time, but it sure doesn't sound good.

I lived in England as a teenager in the mid-1980s, and remember some resentment directed toward Americans at Reagan's aggressive foreign policy with the Soviet Union; many Europeans felt that he was initiating a fight with their big powerful neighbor, while he sat in comfort on the other side of the Atlantic. Your experience of the BBC at this time sounds like a similar sentiment.

As a different experience, in India on 9/11, we saw a lot of compassion from Europeans. We learned of the attacks from a British traveler who came running into our campsite - so distraught that we initially thought he was experiencing a mental health crisis. It was clear that he felt as if his best friend had been attacked; he kept repeating "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry". The next day, we ran into a group of European trekkers and told them what we knew (still very little); the two French women began crying when they heard the news.

It took nearly a month to get to a place where there was decent access to news (Kathmandu, Nepal). By then, the BBC had a different tone, and Lyse Doucet was the main face on the TV in the lobby of the Kathmandu Guest House (some of you may know this hotel - not fancy, but a solid trustworthy institution). I remember being so impressed with her professionalism. She is now the BBC's Chief International Correspondent. I also think she is Canadian - so score one for ChasingOurTrunks!

 

[stickshifter]

I used the "Contact Us" link on the Ineos Grenadier website and politely asked that a heated steering wheel be an option in the Grenadier. I got this reply:

"Thank you for your email and reservation for the INEOS GRENADIER. I will now pass your feedback onto the relevant team. The Grenadier's steering wheel will have a host of features like cruise control, Audio, phone and volume controls, as well other features to be confirmed."

If folks are interested in a heated steering wheel, I suggest contacting Ineos. I think now is the time to offer suggestions. While much is probably set in stone, I am guessing that there is still time for Ineos to make minor changes.

All the best!

 

[Chocki]

There should be enough room under the front wings to be able to fit an auxiliary heater on one side and an auxiliary tank under the other, this could be for water if you are running the heater from the vehicle fuel tank, diesel for the heater or for cold climates Kerosene to power the heater.
This is assuming INEOS haven't already thought of using this space for something else.

 

[Scan4]

Hey Guys,
has anybody heard something about the auxiliary Heater / or Planned to put it in the Gren? Winter is approaching……