Workshop Manuals available?

[Jeremy996]

I reached out on LinkedIn to Steven Graham, Head of Aftersales at Ineos Automotive and he wrote,

"Hi Jeremy and thanks for your question.
We are planning to release later this year the workshop manual as well as other items for our customers but need to get a few things done first to ensure it’s a smooth release.
Hope that helps
Steve"

I am a little reassured and will recommence gentle grumbling rather than the more strident growling of recent days.

 

[Stu_Barnes]

I reached out on LinkedIn to Steven Graham, Head of Aftersales at Ineos Automotive and he wrote,

"Hi Jeremy and thanks for your question.
We are planning to release later this year the workshop manual as well as other items for our customers but need to get a few things done first to ensure it’s a smooth release.
Hope that helps
Steve"

I am a little reassured and will recommence gentle grumbling rather than the more strident growling of recent days.

This reiterates Greg Clark’s comments in a session we have recorded a little while back. (It will be in the soon to be rebooted season 2 of the podcast)

 

[Tazzieman]

I am a little reassured and will recommence gentle grumbling rather than the more strident growling of recent days.

Not that you were ever the other guy
( but they lurk elsewhere !)

 

[mikeonline]

here in germany, a dealer told me, that dealers blocked ineos not to give out the workshop/service manuals, because they fear to loss money.
i dont know if it is true, but INEOS should provide the promised manual as in my opinion this is a declaration they did and this was one of many important things to buy such a rare and strange car.
because its better, opener and not like the SUV/unstable normal car stuff...

 

[Jeremy996]

here in germany, a dealer told me, that dealers blocked ineos not to give out the workshop/service manuals, because they fear to loss money.
i dont know if it is true, but INEOS should provide the promised manual as in my opinion this is a declaration they did and this was one of many important things to buy such a rare and strange car.
because its better, opener and not like the SUV/unstable normal car stuff...

If they really did, then they deserve nothing but ridicule, short sighted Muppets!

A good manual is a sales tool, both for the vehicle and their skills. There are jobs I'll do, (oil change, fuses etc.) and jobs I'm happier paying for, (software, autobox fluid change, anything heavy or needing a ramp).

 

[AWo]

I don't believe that the dealer are responsible for that. Is there something like a coordinated dealer association developing that power? That would have been discussed and decided before IA advertises and announces that while the whole world is watching. Don't they suffer themself from missing manuals? I just can think o that some dealers had a wish to hold it back.

AWo

 

[DenisM]

If they really did, then they deserve nothing but ridicule, short sighted Muppets!

A good manual is a sales tool, both for the vehicle and their skills. There are jobs I'll do, (oil change, fuses etc.) and jobs I'm happier paying for, (software, autobox fluid change, anything heavy or needing a ramp).

It's possible they're getting some dealer pushback. However, as mentioned in previous posts...at the recent 'tech tour', in response to some quite pointed questions on this (read owner frustration!!) the head of Ineos Asia-Pacific... was very definite that a manual in some form with access probably based on VIN Number would be available Q4 this year. According to him, Ineos were yet to decide on the final "platform". The dealers have access but it's a very different IT setup when you have to accommodate potentially thousands of "queries" 24/7 from a global customer base.
........
Mind you, in outback Australia, access restricted to "online only" is about as useful as a paperless dunny .....

 

[jlglr4]

I don't believe that the dealer are responsible for that. Is there something like a coordinated dealer association developing that power?

We certainly have it here in the US, and they lobby congress big time. National Auto Dealers Assoc (NADA). Constantly battling against right to repair movement.

 

[trobex]

Here in Australia the cost of paying a half decent motor mech to stay on the books is one good reason why the local dealers wouldn't want us owners having the manual... just a hunch. They promised this fix a very long time ago and is half the reason I held off entirely on kitting out the truck... and slow after market options too!!!

 

[Jemsquash]

Before the launch Ineos talked a good story on the repair manual, to me it was a promise. It's one major thing holding me back from buying. There are a few other things too such as the foot wedge on the right hand drive, the price of the vehicle. If the repair manual was released I think it would tip it for me.

 

[Znarfgh]

Here in Australia the cost of paying a half decent motor mech to stay on the books is one good reason why the local dealers wouldn't want us owners having the manual... just a hunch. They promised this fix a very long time ago and is half the reason I held off entirely on kitting out the truck... and slow after market options too!!!

Personally, I think this would be a cop out if Ineos let themselves be persuaded by this argument.

I have a complete workshop manual in soft copy for my Land Rover Discovery 2 - soft copy can be purchased online for $10 and hard copies are available from Land Rover for a couple of hundred bucks.

$10 bought me a workshop manual for my Grand Cherokee.

The Grenadier is an enthusiast's vehicle and Ineos know this - that's why they originally advertised the availability of a workshop manual.

I'm personally confident that they will eventually make one available and hope that my confidence is not misplaced.

 

[Tazzieman]

7 minutes in, Justin discusses the issues around releasing service manuals

View: https://youtu.be/y9gcZX3Uclo?si=Mp7Rki6b4ycIrxR4

 

[FlyersFan76]

Personally, I think this would be a cop out if Ineos let themselves be persuaded by this argument.

I have a complete workshop manual in soft copy for my Land Rover Discovery 2 - soft copy can be purchased online for $10 and hard copies are available from Land Rover for a couple of hundred bucks.

$10 bought me a workshop manual for my Grand Cherokee.

The Grenadier is an enthusiast's vehicle and Ineos know this - that's why they originally advertised the availability of a workshop manual.

I'm personally confident that they will eventually make one available and hope that my confidence is not misplaced.

Same. I had one for my Hummer. It was probably 10 inches think fully printed. Relatively cheap.

 

[[ Adam ]]

Same. I had one for my Hummer. It was probably 10 inches think fully printed. Relatively cheap.

Come on Ineos - this is not a new practice - the big white bound one is for my NAS 110.



How does Nissan Handle it?

Nissan Publications

You can conveniently purchase factory authorized Nissan Service Manuals for 1989 model year and newer vehicles. These manuals provide detailed service and repair information for Nissan vehicles.

Completely up to date, and full of easy to follow diagrams and procedures, these manuals are the same ones used by the professionals at your Nissan dealership.

If the service publication you are looking for is not listed, please submit the details of your request by clicking on the “Support” icon at the bottom of the page.

A quick search of E-Bay shows FSM's a plenty.

 

[Fab]

Today I had a chat with Ineos because I want to know how to remove the plastic front bumper
to get to the small cooler on the right.
The answer was useless as usual but, it said the online manual will be available soon.

“Unser Online-3D-Handbuch soll bald veröffentlicht werden, aber ich habe noch keinen definitiven Zeitrahmen dafür. In der Zwischenzeit würde ich Ihnen raten, unser Servicenetzwerk zu nutzen, das über voll ausgebildete Mechaniker und Techniker verfügt, die sich mit den Anforderungen auskennen. Unsere Servicestellen sind auf der Karte unter dem Service-Banner auf unserer Website aufgeführt. Wir wünschen Ihnen viel Erfolg mit dem Service und danken Ihnen für Ihre Geduld hinsichtlich der bevorstehenden manuellen Freigabe.”

“Our online 3D manual is to be published soon, but I don't have a definite time frame for it yet. In the meantime, I would advise you to use our service network, which has fully trained mechanics and technicians who are familiar with the requirements. Our service centres are listed on the map under the service banner on our website. We wish you every success with the service and thank you for your patience regarding the upcoming manual release.”

Fabio

 

[TCMColorado]

Nissan and all the other manufactures in the industry do the same thing. You have to subscribe to an on-line service that costs over $1000 for a full years access to the factory service manual. Sure you can get a single day for $30 but that is of little help if you are in the backcountry with no cell signal or Starlink. No one complaining about the lack of a FSM from Ineos would be happy if they did a similar implementation. Traditional paper FSMs mostly stopped 15+ years ago (check out the dates on all those paper manuals in the image posted by Adam). So what ever Ineos eventually provides it is highly unlikely to be a printed book. Ideally we will get a PDF manual that does not require internet connectivity once downloaded. The take away from the Robert Pepper video is that Ineos is in fact working on a solution. They have done a poor job of communicating this and it is taking to long, but it seems very likely, if not quite 100% certain, that that FSM will be made availabe. We can bitch about how easy it should be make this happen, but the the current social/regulatory/legal environment makes everything more complicated than it was 20 years ago.

 

[[ Adam ]]

So what ever Ineos eventually provides it is highly unlikely to be a printed book.

It's unfortunate, but likely a reality. Ineos is going to get to 80% of their vision & fail to deliver on the things that make it what they said it would be.

I still love the vehicle, I just wish they would close the gap.

 

[flynnsk]

I'll wait until someone figures a way to get the entire manual with out yet another Subscription plan.

 

[[ Adam ]]

I'll wait until someone figures a way to get the entire manual with out yet another Subscription plan.

Based on the rampant distribution of PDF based factory service manuals today, I agree that eventual intellectual property theft is inevitable. Information, as they say - wants to be free.

Ineos could embrace this (publish paper, give the damn PDF away) or they'll just try and fight what we all know will eventually happen. Its too bad, because I'm sure that IP protection is primarily what is delaying our access today.

Also - Don't forget that if the Ineos IT department is in charge of hosting this platform...

Well, we know how that goes.

 

[holdmybeer]

I swear in the 2021-2022 timeframe, an INEOS exec made an explicit analogy to the Open Source philosophy (of some software circles, including commercially viable projects) when telling the world how DIY and mod friendly the Grenadier would be. Some of us early reservation holders bought into that. I did. It was going to be a breath of fresh air from a factory. Now it smells like horseshit.

IMO, IP has no place when it comes to a vehicle owner wanting to maintain or mod their vehicle. Want to void my warranty on part of the truck? That’s fair. But give me the damn map. Show me how “my” truck was made, please.