Petrol/Gas US Oil for B58 Engines

[FlyingTexan]

***If anyone see's something here I need to be corrected on please let me know! I'm no expert ****

I've been doing quite a bit of digging and questioning of the B58 guys in BMW forums. I really feel the powerplant's oil recommendations need to be region specific. I'm still going through things but there's two main specs to consider in the US. BMW LL-01 and BMW LL-04. I'm not even going to mess around with 0w20 as far as weight as concerned. 5w30/5w40 for me. HT/HS is much better in those weights and still meets the LL01/LL04 Spec.

The Ll-17FE and 0w20 oils are with fuel efficiency in mind and anyone running a B58 engine under load (mods or boosts) is saying to stay away from it. Given the Grenadier has a tow rating of 7,800lbs and is 3 tons itself I don't see the 0w20 anywhere near my vehicle (not to mention the 100+ Texas heat). Their aim is to get you to the end of warranty in a safe daily driver manner. Not make a 300+K mile vehicle. I was recently watching a video of Takumi Kurosawa who designed the Nissan GT-R's engine. He said use the cheapest oil to spec and change every 5k miles, filter every 10k. I don't know if I'll stick to that close but I don't think I'll be taking it much past 7,500mi.

So the BMW B58 Spec is LL01/LL04 oils. The LL04 has higher wear additives and would be better but some are saying it doesn't play nice with higher sulfur fuels and isn't recommend for the US (EU has max 10ppm while US has 10ppm normal and max of 50ppm). I also believe it's only for B58 motors with a particulate filter. Do we have that?

I've ran Shell Rotella T6 in everything from a 1998 F150 5.3l, 5.7L cummins, 3.0 Jeep Ecodiesel, 6.2L Sierra, my current LR Discovery TD6, and even my Yamaha 225SHO outboard motor. It's always been known to have a very high quality additives package. With my Discovery TD6 I rand the first few changes with LR's oil spec but switching back to T6 on a recommendation made it run MUCH smoother and better. Shell also makes BMW's branded oil and makes both Pennzoil and Quaker State. Project Farm did a pretty good test and found the Pennzoil to do very well. I've read on Bobistheoilguy's forums that the Quaker State Euro and Pennzoil Euro L are extremely close with only minor changes. The Pennzoil being LL04 and the QS being LL01 (New QS is LL04 as well)
. So for now I'm leaning towards QS Euro ($22/5qt at Walmart) 5w30 (see above)and doing oil changes every 7,500 miles.

It also appears that all 0w oils have lost their LL01 and LL04 certifications potentially due to the stringent oxidation requirements of LL01/LL04. The LL-17FE and similar specs dropped the oxidation requirements I'm reading (Motul made statements on the spec drop).

LL-01 was changed as BMW revised the spec in 2018, tightening oxidation requirements and introducing timing chain guide wear as a criteria for N20 / B48 / B58 engines.

Really seems manufacturers are catering more to CAFE/EPA standards then what's best long term for the owners. I've also read that aside from LL01/LL04 that the Porsche A40 and C40 specs are even a more stringent spec with C40 having the same wear protections but higher emission and deposit protections.

Given how vague the owner's manual is and the fact it spells tire "tyre" I can only assume it's recommendations were based on Euro temperatures, use cases, and fuel blends.

Thoughts on this? I'm buying to own for 20+yrs not to sell in 5.


***EDIT 1*** Here's a virgin oil analysis of Castrol 0w30 that recently has received LL01 cert.

Virgin analysis: Castrol Edge Euro 0W-30 A3/B4, the newest LL01 certified motor oil

Virgin analysis: Castrol Edge Euro 0W-30 A3/B4, the newest LL01 certified motor oil

f30.bimmerpost.com

***EDIT 2***. In 2017 the EPA Tier 3 fuels program went into effect lowering the sulfur ppm to 10ppm. Meaning LL04 is now usable in the USA and I'm now going BACK to my Pennzoil/QuakerState and that is why I believe they're both sporting LL04 approval now instead of LL01.


***EDIT 3***

From a very well respected member on BITOG and multiple BMW forums who everyone says is the GOAT of oil knowledge

As mentioned, the real factor is HTHS.
LL01 and LL04 have a minimum HTHS requirement of 3.5.
To give you an example:
Mobil1 0W40 has an HTHS of 3.6.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 has also an HTHS of 3.6 (per some older PDS and oil has not changed since then).
The golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. So, forget grade, and focus on LL01 or LL04 approvals which guarantee robust HTHS. Most Euro oils in XW40 grade are on the thinner side since the grade is actually range.

 

[LC0013]

Interesting and I hope someone else, with more knowledge than me, will chip in on this as my hope is a 300k vehicle as well.

 

[anand]

Personally, I've used and had no issues with Motul and Liqui-Moly lubricants (as well as Mobil 1) for years in both my European and Japanese vehicles (gas, diesel, turbo and NA).

From a quick look around the interwebs, my personal plan is oil changes every 10k miles with an OEM filter and most likely Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-20. The jump between specifications is a bit of a dodgy game to play. Jumping back about two decades, with the VW/Audi 1.8T 20v motor, plenty of people were ignoring the (then new) VW502.00 oil spec and putting in "oil they've been using for years in their turbo motors", and while this worked alright for most, with long term usage it was found that using non-approved oils would create oil sludging, leading to engine failure. VW/Audi then started doing oil analysis and insisting on oil records in blown motors to evaluate whether or not there would be warranty coverage for these failures. This left plenty of people SOL because they were using what worked for other similar uses.

I agree that the Grenadier is a heavy vehicle, with a substantial tow capacity, thus putting the B58 under notable load, however, it is also moderately detuned and with a decreased redline, specifically with longevity and reliability in mind. Arguably the best way to do this, would be to do a long term test across multiple different oils in multiple vehicles driven in similar conditions with oil analyses done at every interval. The information about B58s under "stress" are almost all based on increasing boost for power in otherwise light(er) weight vehicles, which is not the same as running at a slightly higher load continuously (on an otherwise differently calibrated engine).

As with everything else, YMMV, and we won't really know what oil(s) are great or not for another handful of years at least. Additionally, in the benefit of full disclosures, I usually keep vehicles for 1.5-2 years (45-65k miles), with only 1 reaching 4 years in the past 22 years; a horrible byproduct of working in the automotive aftermarket and needing the latest/greatest for R&D that has stuck with me even though I'm out of the industry now.

 

[Reducs]

VW/Audi then started doing oil analysis and insisting on oil records in blown motors to evaluate whether or not there would be warranty coverage for these failures.

This is my fear. I don't trust any auto maker to not look for an out if something goes wrong. If there is a catastrophic failure they will test the oil.

 

[FlyingTexan]

In the US they would have to prove that's why it failed but my Jeep Grand Cherokee Ecodiesel and LR Discovery TD6 both have had their specs changed multiple times. The Ecodiesel started out with very lightweight oils then by the end was telling people to run Rotella T6 due to the main bearings going out and grenading people's engines at 40k miles. It cost a lot of people a lot of money before they finally just admitted their spec wasn't the best.

The thing is that tech changes. Back in the day 100k on a motor meant time to get rid of it. Now it's still just a baby. Machining and tolerances are much tighter. Turbo's are widely used. Things aren't the same so saying "I've always used this oil and it's worked for me" doesn't mean it's the best option moving forward. Like BMW making their LL01/04 more stringent in 2018, things change. But my panic goto will still be rotella t6 if I can't figure it out.

This is my fear. I don't trust any auto maker to not look for an out if something goes wrong. If there is a catastrophic failure they will test the oil.

 

[FlyingTexan]

I guess I can't edit the OP anymore which I was going to do to clean up some info but here's a good explanation of which way to go here in the states.

So, several things:
1. BMW doesn't design engines around grade, but HTHS (High Temperature High Shear). From onset BMW engines are designed for minimum HTHS of 3.5cp. HTHS is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity at 150c. That is basically most important parameter of an oil when it comes to protection. HTHS of 3.5 is achieved usually with very heavy XW30 oils or light XW40 oils. Some XW30 oils are ranging between 3.5 and 3.65cp. XW40 oils range usually from 3.6 to 3.9cp. Everything depends on base stocks of oil.
2. 0W20 oils have HTHS from 2.6 to 2.9. So why BMW is using this? Because EPA calculates consumption through CAFE requirements. That is it! This is a bet. How many BMW owners keep car beyond lease agreement? How many drive beyond city limits?
3. BMW engines, all of them, can use 20W60 oils if one wants. Why? Because 0W20 at 40c (KV40) is 3 times thicker than average 20W60 at 100c (KV100). So, no engine won't get damaged if XW40 oil is used.
4. APPROVAL IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS! Whether oil is XW30 or XW40 is irrelevant. What is important is that oil is LL04 or LL01 if someone wants to use heavier oils. Yes, there are differences between those oils. Some are better than others. But you are in the end buying high end oil that is approved.

 

[FlyingTexan]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtSwaF2evTU

 

[lagartoboy]

I guess I can't edit the OP anymore which I was going to do to clean up some info but here's a good explanation of which way to go here in the states.

Lots of great analysis. Did you reach a conclusion of which oil you are going to use in Texas where we can expect 70+ days of over 100 degrees?

 

[FlyingTexan]

Lots of great analysis. Did you reach a conclusion of which oil you are going to use in Texas where we can expect 70+ days of over 100 degrees?

I’m running Pennzoil Platinum Euro L right now it’s a heavy 5w30. Then I’ll switch to Quaker State Euro after this and just stick with that. It’s weighted as a 5w40 in the US but has the same HTHS and is LL04 spec. I’m pretty sure it’s the same oil just a different bottle. Both made by Shell. It’s $22 a 5qt from Walmart with free delivery so I loaded up on a few jugs.

 

[Tarheel]

Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30 also has the BMW LL-01 rating. Available at Walmart. That is what I am using.

 

[Tarheel]

Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 has the BMW ll-04 rating. Available at Autozone

 

[zvakanaka]

Amsoil Baby first in synthetics, it's even in my lawnmower

 

[Tom109]

Amsoil Baby first in synthetics, it's even in my lawnmower

Nothing against Amsoil, but the company gives me a snake oil feeling, just like K&N. I personally know Mobil lube engineers so I’m sticking with Mobil1.

 

[zvakanaka]

Can't go wrong with Mobil 1 and some other synthetics are also good but some are better. After using Amsoil in my daughter's Honda Element for 7 years and 235,000 miles, a Saturday afternoon inspection by removing the valve cover revealed there was absolutely zero sludge buildup, no wear noted, no value lash noise either, it looked like it had been washed out with honey in there, very impressive. I had also used Amsoil 25,000 mile oil so I am a true believer and use it in everything I own and have owned and recommend it to all who will listen. My Fieldmaster will benefit from it aslo.

 

[shiv.nandak]

I am planning on staying away from LL-14 FE+ which is mainly designed for EPA, CAFE, fuel mileage requirements. I live in a colder climate, so I am currently leaning towards Genuine Bmw 0w-30 (LL01-FE) from FCPEuro. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Also, what is the part number for the oil filter? where do I buy it?

 

[Tom109]

Filter: BMW 1142 7826 799
Oil: Mobil1 ESP 5W30 (LL04)

 

[Tarheel]

Here's what I've found thus far:

Autozone has 5qt Mobil1 5w-30 ESP (meets BMW LL04 specs) and STP filter S90186XL bundles for $37.99

BMW LL-01 spec options:
Castrol Edge Euro 5w-30
Quaker State Euro 5w-40
Mobil 1 Euro 0w-40
Penzoil Platinum Euro L 5w-30

Filter Options:
BMW 11427 826 799
MANN HU 6022 Z
STP S90186XL

 

[Tom109]

After looking at the specifications, the LL17FE+ is super low viscosity and lighter than I want to use. I would prefer a higher viscosity to improve engine life, such as the BMW LL04 or LL01 spec oils.

The Ineos B58 particulate filter calls for a low SAPS (sulfated ash, phosphorus, sulfur) oil. This is BMW LL04 spec, designed to prevent degradation of particulate filters.

If you want better wear protection you could go with BMW LL01 spec which contains more SAPS antiwear additives. I understand there is a chance this could accelerate degradation of the CAT or particulate filter, but I cannot comment on that directly.

 

[shiv.nandak]

After looking at the specifications, the LL17FE+ is super low viscosity and lighter than I want to use. I would prefer a higher viscosity to improve engine life, such as the BMW LL04 or LL01 spec oils.

The Ineos B58 particulate filter calls for a low SAPS (sulfated ash, phosphorus, sulfur) oil. This is BMW LL04 spec, designed to prevent degradation of particulate filters.

If you want better wear protection you could go with BMW LL01 spec which contains more SAPS antiwear additives. I understand there is a chance this could accelerate degradation of the CAT or particulate filter, but I cannot comment on that directly.

Does "degradation of the CAT" mean more noise? If so, that settles the debate for me

 

[Jayman1]

I’ve decided to use this oil which is recommended spec C2 was looking at Castrol 0w-20 but I wanted a little heavier.