- Local time
- 6:48 PM
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2022
- Messages
- 417
- Reaction score
- 292
***If anyone see's something here I need to be corrected on please let me know! I'm no expert ****
I've been doing quite a bit of digging and questioning of the B58 guys in BMW forums. I really feel the powerplant's oil recommendations need to be region specific. I'm still going through things but there's two main specs to consider in the US. BMW LL-01 and BMW LL-04. I'm not even going to mess around with 0w20 as far as weight as concerned. 5w30/5w40 for me. HT/HS is much better in those weights and still meets the LL01/LL04 Spec.
The Ll-17FE and 0w20 oils are with fuel efficiency in mind and anyone running a B58 engine under load (mods or boosts) is saying to stay away from it. Given the Grenadier has a tow rating of 7,800lbs and is 3 tons itself I don't see the 0w20 anywhere near my vehicle (not to mention the 100+ Texas heat). Their aim is to get you to the end of warranty in a safe daily driver manner. Not make a 300+K mile vehicle. I was recently watching a video of Takumi Kurosawa who designed the Nissan GT-R's engine. He said use the cheapest oil to spec and change every 5k miles, filter every 10k. I don't know if I'll stick to that close but I don't think I'll be taking it much past 7,500mi.
So the BMW B58 Spec is LL01/LL04 oils. The LL04 has higher wear additives and would be better but some are saying it doesn't play nice with higher sulfur fuels and isn't recommend for the US (EU has max 10ppm while US has 10ppm normal and max of 50ppm). I also believe it's only for B58 motors with a particulate filter. Do we have that?
I've ran Shell Rotella T6 in everything from a 1998 F150 5.3l, 5.7L cummins, 3.0 Jeep Ecodiesel, 6.2L Sierra, my current LR Discovery TD6, and even my Yamaha 225SHO outboard motor. It's always been known to have a very high quality additives package. With my Discovery TD6 I rand the first few changes with LR's oil spec but switching back to T6 on a recommendation made it run MUCH smoother and better. Shell also makes BMW's branded oil and makes both Pennzoil and Quaker State. Project Farm did a pretty good test and found the Pennzoil to do very well. I've read on Bobistheoilguy's forums that the Quaker State Euro and Pennzoil Euro L are extremely close with only minor changes. The Pennzoil being LL04 and the QS being LL01 (New QS is LL04 as well)
.So for now I'm leaning towards QS Euro ($22/5qt at Walmart) 5w30 (see above)and doing oil changes every 7,500 miles.
It also appears that all 0w oils have lost their LL01 and LL04 certifications potentially due to the stringent oxidation requirements of LL01/LL04. The LL-17FE and similar specs dropped the oxidation requirements I'm reading (Motul made statements on the spec drop).
Really seems manufacturers are catering more to CAFE/EPA standards then what's best long term for the owners. I've also read that aside from LL01/LL04 that the Porsche A40 and C40 specs are even a more stringent spec with C40 having the same wear protections but higher emission and deposit protections.
Given how vague the owner's manual is and the fact it spells tire "tyre" I can only assume it's recommendations were based on Euro temperatures, use cases, and fuel blends.
Thoughts on this? I'm buying to own for 20+yrs not to sell in 5.
***EDIT 1*** Here's a virgin oil analysis of Castrol 0w30 that recently has received LL01 cert.
***EDIT 2***. In 2017 the EPA Tier 3 fuels program went into effect lowering the sulfur ppm to 10ppm. Meaning LL04 is now usable in the USA and I'm now going BACK to my Pennzoil/QuakerState and that is why I believe they're both sporting LL04 approval now instead of LL01.
***EDIT 3***
From a very well respected member on BITOG and multiple BMW forums who everyone says is the GOAT of oil knowledge
I've been doing quite a bit of digging and questioning of the B58 guys in BMW forums. I really feel the powerplant's oil recommendations need to be region specific. I'm still going through things but there's two main specs to consider in the US. BMW LL-01 and BMW LL-04. I'm not even going to mess around with 0w20 as far as weight as concerned. 5w30/5w40 for me. HT/HS is much better in those weights and still meets the LL01/LL04 Spec.
The Ll-17FE and 0w20 oils are with fuel efficiency in mind and anyone running a B58 engine under load (mods or boosts) is saying to stay away from it. Given the Grenadier has a tow rating of 7,800lbs and is 3 tons itself I don't see the 0w20 anywhere near my vehicle (not to mention the 100+ Texas heat). Their aim is to get you to the end of warranty in a safe daily driver manner. Not make a 300+K mile vehicle. I was recently watching a video of Takumi Kurosawa who designed the Nissan GT-R's engine. He said use the cheapest oil to spec and change every 5k miles, filter every 10k. I don't know if I'll stick to that close but I don't think I'll be taking it much past 7,500mi.
So the BMW B58 Spec is LL01/LL04 oils. The LL04 has higher wear additives and would be better but some are saying it doesn't play nice with higher sulfur fuels and isn't recommend for the US (EU has max 10ppm while US has 10ppm normal and max of 50ppm). I also believe it's only for B58 motors with a particulate filter. Do we have that?
I've ran Shell Rotella T6 in everything from a 1998 F150 5.3l, 5.7L cummins, 3.0 Jeep Ecodiesel, 6.2L Sierra, my current LR Discovery TD6, and even my Yamaha 225SHO outboard motor. It's always been known to have a very high quality additives package. With my Discovery TD6 I rand the first few changes with LR's oil spec but switching back to T6 on a recommendation made it run MUCH smoother and better. Shell also makes BMW's branded oil and makes both Pennzoil and Quaker State. Project Farm did a pretty good test and found the Pennzoil to do very well. I've read on Bobistheoilguy's forums that the Quaker State Euro and Pennzoil Euro L are extremely close with only minor changes. The Pennzoil being LL04 and the QS being
.
It also appears that all 0w oils have lost their LL01 and LL04 certifications potentially due to the stringent oxidation requirements of LL01/LL04. The LL-17FE and similar specs dropped the oxidation requirements I'm reading (Motul made statements on the spec drop).
LL-01 was changed as BMW revised the spec in 2018, tightening oxidation requirements and introducing timing chain guide wear as a criteria for N20 / B48 / B58 engines.
Really seems manufacturers are catering more to CAFE/EPA standards then what's best long term for the owners. I've also read that aside from LL01/LL04 that the Porsche A40 and C40 specs are even a more stringent spec with C40 having the same wear protections but higher emission and deposit protections.
Given how vague the owner's manual is and the fact it spells tire "tyre" I can only assume it's recommendations were based on Euro temperatures, use cases, and fuel blends.
Thoughts on this? I'm buying to own for 20+yrs not to sell in 5.
***EDIT 1*** Here's a virgin oil analysis of Castrol 0w30 that recently has received LL01 cert.
Virgin analysis: Castrol Edge Euro 0W-30 A3/B4, the newest LL01 certified motor oil
Virgin analysis: Castrol Edge Euro 0W-30 A3/B4, the newest LL01 certified motor oil
f30.bimmerpost.com
***EDIT 2***. In 2017 the EPA Tier 3 fuels program went into effect lowering the sulfur ppm to 10ppm. Meaning LL04 is now usable in the USA and I'm now going BACK to my Pennzoil/QuakerState and that is why I believe they're both sporting LL04 approval now instead of LL01.
***EDIT 3***
From a very well respected member on BITOG and multiple BMW forums who everyone says is the GOAT of oil knowledge
As mentioned, the real factor is HTHS.
LL01 and LL04 have a minimum HTHS requirement of 3.5.
To give you an example:
Mobil1 0W40 has an HTHS of 3.6.
Pennzoil Platinum Euro L 5W30 has also an HTHS of 3.6 (per some older PDS and oil has not changed since then).
The golden rule of lubrication: as thin as possible, as thick as necessary. So, forget grade, and focus on LL01 or LL04 approvals which guarantee robust HTHS. Most Euro oils in XW40 grade are on the thinner side since the grade is actually range.
Last edited: