Grenadier QM over Gladiator

[duners]

Let's have a discussion on the Grenadier QM vs Gladiator.

I'm currently in the market for a new vehicle and located in the Middle East. Current ride is a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon and I love it though unfortunately I can't take it to my next destination.

Now, I can probably buy another Gladiator but the Ineos Grenadier QM looks to be an interesting alternative. However, I'm finding it bit of hard sell considering the price (the station wagon is ~20k usd more expensive vs comparable Jeep) as well as lack of features.

I know some people here insist that owning a Jeep is a headache not to mention unreliable but I own 2 Jeeps here (KL Cherokee Trailhawk and JT Rubicon) and both are doing great despite the sand and heat.

The Gladiator goes offroad almost every weekend during the cooler months and a few times during the summer. We're taking about dune bashing running up and down 100-200ft tall dunes while doing 80-100km desert crossing. So far at 40,000 km I had been nothing but reliable with only some problems below.

Out of dealership issues:
1. Defective 4WD actuator, my 4wd keeps on disengaging after a while. Fixed within 2 trips to the service center and has no issues since
2. Too flexible inner fender liner that gets torn easily. Replaced by the dealer with a better sturdier version

Self inflicted issues:
1. Front driveshaft going bust. I lifted the car 2.5" and fitted 35s with higher offset rims but didn't change the control arms causing stress to the drive shaft due to high angle and it went bust after almost 1 year. Changed the driveshaft and control arms and now it's going great

Preventive Maintenence
1. Changed the belt and pulleys after almost 40k kms when they start to sound weird as using it in desert environment would cause the bearing to wear down

And it's not just me, the JK and JL within my offroad group also had no major issues. So no Jeep is a headache and unreliable please.

Now back to the QM vs Gladiator. What would be the QM advantages over the Gladiator? I've tested driven the station wagon and my finding as follows:

1. I have no issues with the size (Gladiator is also a long vehicle).
2. Steering is a bit slow to return for the last quarter of turn but not a deal breaker
3. Steering is more firm feeling, thus enjoyable for highways. Then again I have no issues with the "loose" steering on my Gladiator since I'm used to it
4. Engine feels a bit rough, sounds rough and lack refinement. Overall NVH is probably the same though
5. The stamp size reverse camera view is a big letdown for a vehicle this price. My Jeep has both front and rear camera from factory and shows up full size on screen which helps a lot when maneuvering tight spaces or even offroad. It's the least you can expect for the price
6. Lack of any driver's assistance. I know MY24 cars are getting some but this should be an option even right now and much more. The Jeep has Adaptive Cruise Control (which I use from time to time), Blind Spot Monitor (super useful), AEB (standard on MY24 Grenadier supposedly), and Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) which I find to be the most useful thing ever on the Jeep as both people and drivers here don't really care that you're reversing, they would literally walk or drive behind you, kids on scooters included!
7. Rear seat space is quite limited and a bit awkward to get in and out. Lack of grab handles is quite an inconvenience (also no driver side grab handles)

On the plus side I do feel that the Grenadier is very sturdy and built like a tank. Not to mention it's new and has the cool factor. But the price and lack of features is a big let down. Yes this is supposed to be a car for purist and serious offroader but what better way to increase creature comfort (ie as simple as grab handles) and offer more safety options that it can be a multipurpose car for many people especially for such a high price.

So yeah I'm still looking for an "it" factor that can sway me to buy a Grenadier so please go ahead and fill me in

 

[Mountain4x4]

I am in your shoes. I want one of these for retirement, just not for a few years. The main thing for me is durability. There are other, very common front end items that break on the Gladiator. Something cool and different is also good. I think the Ineos has very interesting, and thoughtful off road goodies and a long list of features that beat the Gladiator, but on luxury items I doubt it ever will. Things like Active Cruise control would be nice on long trips for sure, but not sure its worth all the annoyances. I have very little experience with that as the newest rig I have is a 2018. We do have a 2023 Ford Transit for work, and those features were really a waste around town I have found. If we get Chicken Taxed, that will decide it for me. This is a hard choice to make for sure.

 

[stickshifter]

Let's have a discussion on the Grenadier QM vs Gladiator.

I'm currently in the market for a new vehicle and located in the Middle East. Current ride is a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon and I love it though unfortunately I can't take it to my next destination.

Now, I can probably buy another Gladiator but the Ineos Grenadier QM looks to be an interesting alternative. However, I'm finding it bit of hard sell considering the price (the station wagon is ~20k usd more expensive vs comparable Jeep) as well as lack of features.

I know some people here insist that owning a Jeep is a headache not to mention unreliable but I own 2 Jeeps here (KL Cherokee Trailhawk and JT Rubicon) and both are doing great despite the sand and heat.

The Gladiator goes offroad almost every weekend during the cooler months and a few times during the summer. We're taking about dune bashing running up and down 100-200ft tall dunes while doing 80-100km desert crossing. So far at 40,000 km I had been nothing but reliable with only some problems below.

Out of dealership issues:
1. Defective 4WD actuator, my 4wd keeps on disengaging after a while. Fixed within 2 trips to the service center and has no issues since
2. Too flexible inner fender liner that gets torn easily. Replaced by the dealer with a better sturdier version

Self inflicted issues:
1. Front driveshaft going bust. I lifted the car 2.5" and fitted 35s with higher offset rims but didn't change the control arms causing stress to the drive shaft due to high angle and it went bust after almost 1 year. Changed the driveshaft and control arms and now it's going great

Preventive Maintenence
1. Changed the belt and pulleys after almost 40k kms when they start to sound weird as using it in desert environment would cause the bearing to wear down

And it's not just me, the JK and JL within my offroad group also had no major issues. So no Jeep is a headache and unreliable please.

Now back to the QM vs Gladiator. What would be the QM advantages over the Gladiator? I've tested driven the station wagon and my finding as follows:

1. I have no issues with the size (Gladiator is also a long vehicle).
2. Steering is a bit slow to return for the last quarter of turn but not a deal breaker
3. Steering is more firm feeling, thus enjoyable for highways. Then again I have no issues with the "loose" steering on my Gladiator since I'm used to it
4. Engine feels a bit rough, sounds rough and lack refinement. Overall NVH is probably the same though
5. The stamp size reverse camera view is a big letdown for a vehicle this price. My Jeep has both front and rear camera from factory and shows up full size on screen which helps a lot when maneuvering tight spaces or even offroad. It's the least you can expect for the price
6. Lack of any driver's assistance. I know MY24 cars are getting some but this should be an option even right now and much more. The Jeep has Adaptive Cruise Control (which I use from time to time), Blind Spot Monitor (super useful), AEB (standard on MY24 Grenadier supposedly), and Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) which I find to be the most useful thing ever on the Jeep as both people and drivers here don't really care that you're reversing, they would literally walk or drive behind you, kids on scooters included!
7. Rear seat space is quite limited and a bit awkward to get in and out. Lack of grab handles is quite an inconvenience (also no driver side grab handles)

On the plus side I do feel that the Grenadier is very sturdy and built like a tank. Not to mention it's new and has the cool factor. But the price and lack of features is a big let down. Yes this is supposed to be a car for purist and serious offroader but what better way to increase creature comfort (ie as simple as grab handles) and offer more safety options that it can be a multipurpose car for many people especially for such a high price.

So yeah I'm still looking for an "it" factor that can sway me to buy a Grenadier so please go ahead and fill me in

I won't even try to be comprehensive here, nor do I know anything about pricing of either vehicle in your country, so this will just be my take on the major differences. I'm also not going to get into reliability, as it will take years for us to know as much about the Grenadier and QM as we do about the Jeep products.

QM advantages
1- Much better drive train. The 3.6 Pentastar in the Gladiator is not very powerful, and the 3.0 Eco-Diesel has not been very reliable. The BMW engines are better, and the German-produced ZF transmission is probably better quality than the ZF in the Gladiator, which is made in either the US or Mexico (I forget which). Both BMW engines provide good low-end torque (much better than the 3.6). The 3.0 Eco-Diesel in the Gladiator also has excellent low-end torque, but seems to have over-heating issues when under significant load.
2- Stronger frame, axles, running gear (e.g. tie rod, track bar, drag link), and a stronger body with beefier good-sealing doors.
3- More comfortable seats (at least for most people)
4- Quieter on the highway
5- I think the QM has a better suspension, but the Rubicon and Mojave versions of the Gladiator are both pretty good
6- The QM has a fixed roof, which may or may not be regarded as an advantage. To me it is an advantage, as it is more secure, stiffer, quieter, and the roof is stronger (i.e. can bear a heavier load).
7- The 2.5:1 transfer case is much better for dune bashing than the 4:1 transfer case in the Gladiator

Gladiator advantages
1- The 4:1 transfer case is much better for rock-crawling than the 2.5:1 transfer case in the QM
2- The gear selector in the Gladiator is much better for off-road driving than the BMW shifter in the QM
3- Some people love the removable roof panels - that's a personal preference (I prefer a fixed roof)
4- Easier to modify: (a) there are - as yet - no aftermarket gears for the Carraro axles in the QM, but you can get a tone of different gears for the Dana axles in the Gladiator, (b) multiple different lockers for Dana axles, (c) there must be close to a hundred companies making suspension lifts for the Gladiator, (d) you can get aftermarket tie-rods, drag links, track bars, etc. for the Gladiator, and lastly, (e) the Gladiator is basically engineered with the expectation that an owner will want larger tires.
5- Stock tires on a Rubicon or Mojave are 33-inches (stock on the QM are 31.6 inches - if it is the same as the Grenadier)
6- Disconnecting front sway bar (though it can have issues if repeatedly submerged)
7- The lockers engage and disengage better
8- Heated steering wheel as an option
9- Larger image for backup camera, and the backup camera comes on whenever you put the truck in reverse. The Grenadier's backup camera does not come on when the vehicle is in "off-road mode" - I would guess the same will be true in the QM.
10- If you buy one soon, the Gladiator won't have ADAS (again, this is a personal preference, but I do not like ADAS - you might like it)

Conclusion: the QM has a better drive train and is built more stoutly. These are huge advantages over the Gladiator.

 

[Mountain4x4]

Will the Gladiator be required to have ADAS soon?

 

[duners]

Will the Gladiator be required to have ADAS soon?

The Gladiators here in the Middle East comes with limited ADAS depending on trim. Mine (Gladiator Rubicon) has the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC), Blind Spot Monitor (BSM), Rear Cross Traffic Alert (RCTA) and Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB). Also cars over here would have a warning chime for a few seconds if the speed is above 120 km/h. For Jeep it's just as easy as pressing OK on the steering wheel but for GM cars it's a bit more complicated as you have to scroll down etc before being able to press OK.

 

[LeeroyJ]

I spent a lot of time doing trips through the Rub Al Khali. I did a few in a 2007 Defender 110 ( was underpowered for soft sand and when you needed to be able to punch up a long dune, otherwise I loved it), but mostly in a 76 Series Land Cruiser and 200 Series Land Cruiser. As far as vehicles I've had to tow/rescue out of the RAK, 2 were Nissan Patrols, and 2 were Jeep Rubicons. The Toyotas were always able to make it out on their own (even after having been rolled). All of that is a long way of saying, "you may have been lucky with your personal experience in Jeeps, but there is a reason you don't see them in the desert very often once you get more than two hours from the nearest tarmac".

Of course the IG reliability remains to be seen, so who knows how it will turn out.

Where will you be moving too? Maybe the double-cab v8 diesel 70 series Land Cruiser would be a better option for you (you may still be able to find some new) or the newer refreshed 70 series if you want an automatic and aren't scared of the new engine? I originally bought my 76 from Oman.

If you are doing true dune-bashing and won't be far from civilization, the Jeep is probably the better choice (by true dune bashing I mean your main purpose is to summit dunes and play in dunes). If you are doing crossings / overlanding, where crossing dunes is just an obstacle along the way, then I would probably go with the IG (with the caveat that the reliability is still unproven). It just is built so much more solidly than the Jeeps and I suspect it will weather the heavy loads and rough terrane better. Both vehicles really have undersized fuel tanks for that sort of thing though.

 

[duners]

I spent a lot of time doing trips through the Rub Al Khali. I did a few in a 2007 Defender 110 ( was underpowered for soft sand and when you needed to be able to punch up a long dune, otherwise I loved it), but mostly in a 76 Series Land Cruiser and 200 Series Land Cruiser. As far as vehicles I've had to tow/rescue out of the RAK, 2 were Nissan Patrols, and 2 were Jeep Rubicons. The Toyotas were always able to make it out on their own (even after having been rolled). All of that is a long way of saying, "you may have been lucky with your personal experience in Jeeps, but there is a reason you don't see them in the desert very often once you get more than two hours from the nearest tarmac".

Of course the IG reliability remains to be seen, so who knows how it will turn out.

Where will you be moving too? Maybe the double-cab v8 diesel 70 series Land Cruiser would be a better option for you (you may still be able to find some new) or the newer refreshed 70 series if you want an automatic and aren't scared of the new engine? I originally bought my 76 from Oman.

If you are doing true dune-bashing and won't be far from civilization, the Jeep is probably the better choice (by true dune bashing I mean your main purpose is to summit dunes and play in dunes). If you are doing crossings / overlanding, where crossing dunes is just an obstacle along the way, then I would probably go with the IG (with the caveat that the reliability is still unproven). It just is built so much more solidly than the Jeeps and I suspect it will weather the heavy loads and rough terrane better. Both vehicles really have undersized fuel tanks for that sort of thing though.

Thanks for the insight. I'm currently in Oman and would be moving to 1 of the GCC neighbors (not sure which 1 yet). As you mentioned, indeed the Jeep serves it purpose well in the current setting where Wahiba Sands is the primary dune bashing destination.

I did have a look at the new refreshed 70 series with the new engine but it probably won't be a good multipurpose car that I can also daily drive. I guess let see where I ended up first and they will be able to make a better decision depending on the primary terrain expected. Agree that if overlanding is the primary aim, then perhaps and IG would be a better option or maybe I'll just switch to the SW or just go for an LC.

Appreciate the response

 

[DaBull]

Thanks for the insight. I'm currently in Oman and would be moving to 1 of the GCC neighbors (not sure which 1 yet). As you mentioned, indeed the Jeep serves it purpose well in the current setting where Wahiba Sands is the primary dune bashing destination.

I did have a look at the new refreshed 70 series with the new engine but it probably won't be a good multipurpose car that I can also daily drive. I guess let see where I ended up first and they will be able to make a better decision depending on the primary terrain expected. Agree that if overlanding is the primary aim, then perhaps and IG would be a better option or maybe I'll just switch to the SW or just go for an LC.

Appreciate the response

Go Grenadier! DaBull

 

[SBA]

Having owned both Jeeps Landrovers and Now a Grenadier they all meet certain aspects and markets.
1) Jeep XJ 4.0 still own 1996 model (Bullet Proof and keeps just going)
2) 2015 Landrover 110 Crew Cab provided great service uncomfortable on long runs great around the farm etc totally iconic now sold to purchase greanadier.
3) Jeep 4.0 TJ wrangler crude but relaible Japan RHD import 2006 is a fun vehicle easy to work on
4) Grenadier comfortable built for purpose tonka tough to be honest only time will tell.

 

[Krabby]

I know it's not perfect by any means and its torque and power curves could be better, but that Jeep straight 6 is an epic engine.

 

[stickshifter]

I know it's not perfect by any means and its torque and power curves could be better, but that Jeep straight 6 is an epic engine.

It makes some "top straight 6 engines" lists!

The 9 best straight-six engines - Hagerty Media

All hail the inline!

www.hagerty.com

I think the B58 could climb onto these lists...

 

[MrMike]

Bit late to the party here, but one thing to consider, the rear seating in the Grenadier is the same as the N1 wagon, so- upright and 90mm less knee/leg room than the wagon. One reason why I didn't go for it.
In all honesty you are comparing apples with bananas, the only similarity is they are both fruit (dual cab 4x4s) I'm not necessarily bagging either but IMO there are better vehicles out there that do the same job.

 

[duners]

Bit late to the party here, but one thing to consider, the rear seating in the Grenadier is the same as the N1 wagon, so- upright and 90mm less knee/leg room than the wagon. One reason why I didn't go for it.
In all honesty you are comparing apples with bananas, the only similarity is they are both fruit (dual cab 4x4s) I'm not necessarily bagging either but IMO there are better vehicles out there that do the same job.

OK that nails it. This fact alone means the QM is a no go for me then.

Off to looking at the Station Wagon then. Hopefully the 2025 models would come with bit more features while fixing the current issues

 

[MrMike]

OK that nails it. This fact alone means the QM is a no go for me then.

Off to looking at the Station Wagon then. Hopefully the 2025 models would come with bit more features while fixing the current issues

Current issues(?) should be sorted, but what features are you looking for?

 

[255/85]

OK that nails it. This fact alone means the QM is a no go for me then.

Off to looking at the Station Wagon then. Hopefully the 2025 models would come with bit more features while fixing the current issues

If you want "features" buy a Jeep. If you want "heavy duty" by an Ineos. Gladiators weigh 5000lbs. Quartermasters weigh 6000lbs. Gladiator can tow 4500lbs. Quartermaster tows 7700lbs. You get what you pay for.

 

[Mountain4x4]

If you want "features" buy a Jeep. If you want "heavy duty" by an Ineos. Gladiators weigh 5000lbs. Quartermasters weigh 6000lbs. Gladiator can tow 4500lbs. Quartermaster tows 7700lbs. You get what you pay for.

You can get up to 7K towing with Gladiator.

 

[stickshifter]

You can get up to 7K towing with Gladiator.

yup - 7,700 pounds, to be precise

 

[duners]

yup - 7,700 pounds, to be precise

Indeed, the petrol tows 7700lbs while the diesel tows 6000 lbs so effectively a tie here (at least for the petrol version)

The QM has no advantage over Gladiator in this aspect

 

[stickshifter]

Indeed, the petrol tows 7700lbs while the diesel tows 6000 lbs so effectively a tie here (at least for the petrol version)

The QM has no advantage over Gladiator in this aspect

But I think there will be a difference. The max tow number with the Gladiator only comes with a certain spec vehicle (which is true for all manufacturers), but most people do not spec their Gladiator for max tow. The Rubicon and Mojave trims have lower tow numbers due to the increased performance they get off-road; the main factor in the lower tow rating is that they get softer springs for better articulation. Most QM trucks that are sold are going to be relatively close to the max tow number, because there isn't an "off-road trim" that gives you softer springs.

 

[255/85]

Indeed, the petrol tows 7700lbs while the diesel tows 6000 lbs so effectively a tie here (at least for the petrol version)

The QM has no advantage over Gladiator in this aspect

Wow, I see they've upped the tow specs on the Gladiator. Maybe by using the full-float Dana 44 which they've only now thrown in to rob some thunder from the QM? Jeep could have done that before but didn't until now because there hasn't been any direct competitors for to the Gladiator (solid axles, BOF, F&R lockers). They're certainly screaming "Best in Class" at this point. Carraro also offers a FF rear so I imagine it's coming as an upgrade in a year or two on the Ineos products. But that's not the whole story.

The higher Gladiator tow rating is with the anemic old V6. It matches the petrol BMW in the Quartermaster for horse power but puts out 100 ft.-lbs. of torque less. I doubt the 3.6 will hold up long term to very heavy towing in ruff conditions despite it's naturally aspirated simplicity. It's probably fine on the highway but don't get yourself bogged. Jeep's diesel engine must be one heavy lump to cut the tow capacity by 1700 lbs! I didn't look to see what the 392 version (?) can tow.

Even if you call it a wash on the towing, the QM is still built heavier and that's a consideration for those not on the blacktop. I'm not in the market for a mid-sized pickup but my money would be on the QM for longevity. Then there's the issue of brake size and trailering software. Who's got the better ESC when the GCWR is high?