Alligator TPMS sensors- stems and pressures Issues

[MileHigh]

Had my KO3s put back on and installed on some spare rims, so I had to get new TPMS sensors. They had the ‘Alligator’ brand model AU591134TQ12T10. Originally, they just had the rubber valve stem, but they had some metal stems like the OEM, so they used those.

All the sensors seem to link up but:
I’m not sure how accurate the reporting is to the IG display
One of them is reading 36psi, even though gauges say it has 45. As the tires heat up, it does change, so it’s not stuck.
-The value stems have weird caps on them that seem to have a ‘vent-thru’ feature, they are Dill 6541 caps

https://www.alltiresupply.com/products/dill-6541-n-dual-seal-cap?srsltid=AfmBOopPDloIx8t4pjdImioRsdyOAGECqwMhIuEucnwWy8L4YfdskGBb&_su_rec=DyTe_3GtRhsT_bgy_dB9V3J49k1-QnIaj-Pc9hq_c3lRUpEXGo0dNdPwjM8hnDSt4rtxHp3TSkzn7wpU_tak6-qtdpcw4DGsDiaq4ynAW_IGstWtD1MNz-a8Y7srmY-5-aOmH4qx_bipso_Q6sc4tpr0jTOdShmKqS-zbqyK82r4tpRvkzvpvdJiQ7GSW_WTiJmlhCO1IR9B0-h9siAlvRmSoIIyXebMhm2jEtfVE4KuGiIv4lHQVHo24397HmoOLmjUZPCI3serR42Yf5cz5ijGylagafpTvmPf2RaE9XLj4sPHSnxZ76NBM0qMYSfecbXb9mArsCFHocUb4FPa3-OXWQcuFNg1p5Zv_Otul8KIOhjnWg&_su_rec_id=0c495dd8-ab03-4881-aa09-0da2258f5c5f-1778345037&variant=39375873867850

The weird thing is that the low tire is the driver rear, but when I start up the car, the passenger side rear reads low, but then it switches? The pressures actually swap.

Going to get out with my best gauge and my icheck deflators and my new ARB compressor and cycle them up and down in pressure to see if that is the issue.

-Are the blow-thru caps a good idea? I’ve never seen them before?
-Are those the right metallic stems? In the alligator manual there are a bunch of different versions and instal modifications. What is the correct install according to this manual??

https://alligator-tpms.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/U1-Universal-TPMS-Service-Kit-Guide.pdf

Thanks!

 

[Logsplitter]

Had my KO3s put back on and installed on some spare rims, so I had to get new TPMS sensors. They had the ‘Alligator’ brand model AU591134TQ12T10. Originally, they just had the rubber valve stem, but they had some metal stems like the OEM, so they used those.

All the sensors seem to link up but:
I’m not sure how accurate the reporting is to the IG display
One of them is reading 36psi, even though gauges say it has 45. As the tires heat up, it does change, so it’s not stuck.
-The value stems have weird caps on them that seem to have a ‘vent-thru’ feature, they are Dill 6541 caps

https://www.alltiresupply.com/products/dill-6541-n-dual-seal-cap?srsltid=AfmBOopPDloIx8t4pjdImioRsdyOAGECqwMhIuEucnwWy8L4YfdskGBb&_su_rec=DyTe_3GtRhsT_bgy_dB9V3J49k1-QnIaj-Pc9hq_c3lRUpEXGo0dNdPwjM8hnDSt4rtxHp3TSkzn7wpU_tak6-qtdpcw4DGsDiaq4ynAW_IGstWtD1MNz-a8Y7srmY-5-aOmH4qx_bipso_Q6sc4tpr0jTOdShmKqS-zbqyK82r4tpRvkzvpvdJiQ7GSW_WTiJmlhCO1IR9B0-h9siAlvRmSoIIyXebMhm2jEtfVE4KuGiIv4lHQVHo24397HmoOLmjUZPCI3serR42Yf5cz5ijGylagafpTvmPf2RaE9XLj4sPHSnxZ76NBM0qMYSfecbXb9mArsCFHocUb4FPa3-OXWQcuFNg1p5Zv_Otul8KIOhjnWg&_su_rec_id=0c495dd8-ab03-4881-aa09-0da2258f5c5f-1778345037&variant=39375873867850

The weird thing is that the low tire is the driver rear, but when I start up the car, the passenger side rear reads low, but then it switches? The pressures actually swap.

Going to get out with my best gauge and my icheck deflators and my new ARB compressor and cycle them up and down in pressure to see if that is the issue.

-Are the blow-thru caps a good idea? I’ve never seen them before?
-Are those the right metallic stems? In the alligator manual there are a bunch of different versions and instal modifications. What is the correct install according to this manual??

https://alligator-tpms.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/U1-Universal-TPMS-Service-Kit-Guide.pdf

Thanks!

Did these TPMs sensors have to be cloned, to connect with the vehicle, or the wheels and tyres were just swapped with automatic connection ?

 

[MileHigh]

Did these TPMs sensors have to be cloned, to connect with the vehicle, or the wheels and tyres were just swapped with automatic connection ?

I think they had to clone them- but what I figured out is that the sensors are reading pressures right, they just have them in the wrong spots on the truck. I got some iCheck deflators and deflated and then inflated the tires and then I could see where the IG thought the tires were. Need to work with the tire store get it straightened out.

Still not sure on the iChecks, I only used one and had to set it to 30psi to get 20psi. My dual Brushless ARB compressor takes a 285/70R17 from 20psi to 45psi in 70 seconds…. Dog will hunt.

 

[Glen]

@MileHigh - As you no doubt already know, your Grenadier TPMS won't automatically adapt new senders. The hex IDs for the new senders either have to be cloned from the old senders in their corresponding positions or an Ineos dealer has to program new hex IDs. The Alligators appear to be programmable, so very likely the tire shop cloned your old IDs onto the new senders. But it sounds like they got the positions mixed up.

Note that when your TPMS system is hunting around for the right sender, it can connect a rear corner to the spare tire. If the four other senders are in the correct positions, that'll get resolved once the wheels rotate for a short distance and the TPMS will remember that info going forward. If your senders are mixed up side-to-side, I'd imagine that could confuse the TPMS and it might hunt around trying to figure out what should be where. Illustration: I disconnected the battery on my Grenny while doing some electrical work. When I reconnected the battery (and before moving the vehicle), the RR and spare (10 psi higher than any other tire) were swapped on the TPMS display. A minute later, the spare swapped in for the LR. Once I drove the vehicle a few miles, everything synchronized with the correct data displayed for each corner. But I didn't move any TPMS senders, so they were already in the right locations.

The corrective action is to have the tire shop record the hex IDs at each corner, then reprogram each sender with the correct ID. You or they will have to do some detective work to figure out where each ID goes. The easiest method I can think of is to temporarily set each tire to an easily distinguishable pressure. E.g., RF = 30, RR = 45, LR = 40, LF = 35, spare 50. After driving a few miles (I'd keep it under 40 mph for these wonky pressures), you should see that same pattern on your TPMS display and be able to figure out if any of the senders are out of place.

One of the first things I did before installing new TPMS senders in my second set of tires and wheels was to create a map of all 5 TPMS hex IDs on my vehicle so I wouldn't end up with the problem you have. Once everything is fixed, ask the tire shop to do the same for you. My Autel tool won't write to Alligator, so you'll definitely need either the original tire shop or someone with a tool that can write to Alligator.

edit - the Globe Guard OBD II reader I have is set to get an upgrade to write TPMS IDs soon

 

[MileHigh]

I aired them down and up this weekend and mapped out where they report and where they are… have to get back to the tire store to get them squared away.

 

[AztecGrenadier]

I aired them down and up this weekend and mapped out where they report and where they are… have to get back to the tire store to get them squared away.

You can have them just change the IDs and not have to move the wheels.

 

[MileHigh]

Contacted them and I’m taking it in this afternoon.

When it comes to getting the system to show the tires in the correct location- what is the best way to do that with and IG? Change the programming on the alligator TPMS sensors, or change the programming in the IG itself?

When they rotate tires, what do they do? Also, I assume the spare has a TMPS sensor also?

 

[AztecGrenadier]

Contacted them and I’m taking it in this afternoon.

When it comes to getting the system to show the tires in the correct location- what is the best way to do that with and IG? Change the programming on the alligator TPMS sensors, or change the programming in the IG itself?

When they rotate tires, what do they do? Also, I assume the spare has a TMPS sensor also?

Install sensors that you can change the ID on.
Update the senson IDs to match the IG data as you rotate tires.

Several people are working on software that will allow you to update the ID info in the IG.

 

[Glen]

. . .
Change the programming on the alligator TPMS sensors, or change the programming in the IG itself?
. . .
When they rotate tires, what do they do? Also, I assume the spare has a TMPS sensor also?

Currently, only the dealer can change the TPMS sender hex ID associated with a particular position (in the Grenadier's software). So the only thing your tire shop can do that will help is to re-program the Alligator TPMS senders with the correct hex ID for each location, including the spare tire. This corrective action for your current problem is also how they would have to handle rotating tires.

MileHigh:
. . .
When it comes to getting the system to show the tires in the correct location- what is the best way to do that with and IG?
. . .

In my last post, I described a method to map out where each sender is reporting from . . . and you said you had done that. If you haven't, the tire shop should be able to do it for you.

 

[MileHigh]

So they asked me the vehicle model, fed it into a hand held gadget, then got it near each wheel and reprogrammed them. I think. It didn’t seem like they changed, but they said it may take awhile for them to update? I’m getting some pressure data, so they are working. Is there a generic FD, FP, RD, RP code for each position?

I’ll give it a day, otherwise it seems to me that we might have to spoof the tires and cross code them from the programmer suggestion so that they are correct?

 

[Glen]

I think you may not understand how the system works. Five tires on your Grenadier each have a TPMS sender, and each one has a unique alpha-numeric ID. When Ineos assembled your vehicle, they randomly selected and installed five Continental non-programmable TPMS senders in 5 wheels. Theoretically, no other vehicle in the world uses those five TPMS IDs (or at least no vehicle you’ll ever be near).

For each wheel and the spare, Ineos entered the corresponding TPMS ID in the vehicle computer that processes and displays TPMS data. This currently takes proprietary software that only the factory and Ineos dealers have access to.

If you’re not a dealer, you CANNOT (currently) re-program the TPMS IDs stored in the vehicle. But you CAN read the IDs from the TPMS senders Ineos installed, then re-program programmable TPMS senders (like Autel or Alligator) with those original IDs and put them in the same place on the vehicle.

If - like what you think happened - someone re-programmed a valid ID at the wrong location, the data displayed by the TPMS system may not make sense. E.g., the spare tire and the left or right rear might be swapped. Or a front and rear might be swapped (less likely). The fix is to re-program your new programmable TPMS senders with the correct IDs. I’ve described a method to figure out what goes where using different tire pressures in a previous post above.

If one or more new senders were programmed with IDs that are not valid (not among those originally programmed by Ineos in the vehicle computer), you have a different problem. Hopefully your OEM tires and wheels were marked by position before they were removed. If so, you can always read those (any reader should be able to query them) to make a map showing what ID should be at each position. If you want to reinstall the original set of tires & wheels, you’ll want this information so both the new and old sets use the same TPMS ID at each location. This way, you don’t have to go to a dealer to have the vehicle’s TPMS system reprogrammed with different IDs at each location every time you swap tires and wheels.

If you live more than five minutes from the tire shop, your correctly programmed new TPMS senders should have synced up on the way home. You’ll know it’s live data when you see temperature changes. Of course, live temps doesn’t mean they are reporting from the correct location . . . you can verify that by varying pressures if necessary.

If your TPMS senders are not programmed correctly and are not communicating with the vehicle, the TPMS system will display OLD DATA (the last good data the system received) for a long time. How long? In my experience, it can go on for days.

 

[MileHigh]

I think you may not understand how the system works. Five tires on your Grenadier each have a TPMS sender, and each one has a unique alpha-numeric ID. When Ineos assembled your vehicle, they randomly selected and installed five Continental non-programmable TPMS senders in 5 wheels. Theoretically, no other vehicle in the world uses those five TPMS IDs (or at least no vehicle you’ll ever be near).


If - like what you think happened - someone re-programmed a valid ID at the wrong location, the data displayed by the TPMS system may not make sense. E.g., the spare tire and the left or right rear might be swapped. Or a front and rear might be swapped (less likely). The fix is to re-program your new programmable TPMS senders with the correct IDs. I’ve described a method to figure out what goes where using different tire pressures in a previous post above.

If one or more new senders were programmed with IDs that are not valid (not among those originally programmed by Ineos in the vehicle computer), you have a different problem. Hopefully your OEM tires and wheels were marked by position before they were removed. If so, you can always read those (any reader should be able to query them) to make a map showing what ID should be at each position. If you want to reinstall the original set of tires & wheels, you’ll want this information so both the new and old sets use the same TPMS ID at each location. This way, you don’t have to go to a dealer to have the vehicle’s TPMS system reprogrammed with different IDs at each location every time you swap tires and wheels.

If you live more than five minutes from the tire shop, your correctly programmed new TPMS senders should have synced up on the way home. You’ll know it’s live data when you see temperature changes. Of course, live temps doesn’t mean they are reporting from the correct location . . . you can verify that by varying pressures if necessary.

If your TPMS senders are not programmed correctly and are not communicating with the vehicle, the TPMS system will display OLD DATA (the last good data the system received) for a long time. How long? In my experience, it can go on for days.

I barely understand what is going on with TPMS, freely admit that.

The Tire place guy asked the model and punched it into the programmer and then went to each tire and reprogrammed them. Even I was like WTF, how does it know the unique ID- and he didn’t even pull a VIN number.

I get home, go to dinner, over lunch today I play with my deflators and air compressor- the units send and the IG shows values, but they are for the wrong positions.

How did the guy ‘flash’(?) the sensors and have them work at all??? Somehow they got programmed with my IDs, but I’m not sure how the programmer knew them. My winter tires with my OE rims and sensors are in storage, so it’s not like he was able to clone them.

What do I have to tell them to do in the Alligator programmer to move the codes?

ETA: So it seems that they have my codes in the programmer- I might be the only IG they work on (?). But he started coding them from the left front, I was talking to GROK, and it said that you should start programming from the right front. I’m assuming that is if the order that the codes were put in.

I also get that most cars figure out where the tires are and shift the ID correlation- but the IG system is just fixed codes for the four corners and the spare?

 

[Glen]

I barely understand what is going on with TPMS, freely admit that.

The Tire place guy asked the model and punched it into the programmer and then went to each tire and reprogrammed them. Even I was like WTF, how does it know the unique ID- and he didn’t even pull a VIN number.

Many TPMS readers / programmers will record or write data in the order RF, RR, LR, LF. There's no magic to the order of reading or writing, but if you follow the order the TPMS reader asks for, it'll make the data capture easier (fewer button pushes).

What very likely happened was the tech recorded your TPMS IDs when you weren't looking. He would have walked around the car and held the device next to each valve stem (usually in order 'cause it's easier) and recorded the hex ID for that postion. This would likely have happened before any wheels were removed from the car (that's the smart way). At least some TPMS readers don't have a data position for the spare, so he would have had to read that separately if you also swapped out your spare.

With the values recorded, the tech could then walk around the car again and write the recorded values to the new Alligator programmable TPMS sender at each position. The read data is usually recorded as RF, RR, LF and RR, so it would be kind of hard to eff it up and write the data back to the wrong location . . . but certainly possible.

As far as selecting Ineos from the Alligator programming menu, I believe all that's going to do is inform the unit what frequency the TPMS sender should be operating on. There's no VIN involved . . . nothing specific to your vehicle other than it's an Ineos.

but the IG system is just fixed codes for the four corners and the spare?

As far as I know, yes. The Ineos TPMS system won't "learn" the ID of a new sensor, nor will it learn the ID of a sensor in the wrong location*. This is pretty rotten of Ineos. Many vehicles allow you to install new TPMS senders and the system will figure which sender is closest to each position, get its ID, and remember and use that going forward. Making everyone go to the dealer to program new TPMS senders is either a conscious decision to create a revenue stream for dealers, perhaps a (tiny) manufacturing cost savings, or just engineering ignorance. None of those seem like smart choices when so many cars make this TPMS thing a non-issue.

What do I have to tell them to do in the Alligator programmer to move the codes?

Simple - tell them to fix it! A properly coded TPMS system will sync up in 2 - 3 minutes of drving. They should either prove it 's working right or fix it until it does . . . and then prove it's working. It only takes 2 - 3 minutes to prove they've done the job right.

ETA: So it seems that they have my codes in the programmer-

Not likely. A typical TPMS programmer only stores a set of hex IDs for that session. Once you turn it off or use it to read another set of TPMS senders, the data from the last session is overwritten. They can still read the hex IDs from your OEM set of tires and wheels (presuming they are marked with the position they came from). Load those up in the back of your Grenny, go down to the tire shop and let them read the hex IDs from your original rims, then write them to the tires and wheels mounted on the vehicle. That's what I would do.

* there is a facility to correctly report the spare when it is swapped in and there's also apparently a way to rotate your spare through various positions so you include it in the overall wear of your road tires.

 

[MileHigh]

Thanks for the help.

Went back and tried to explain some of these things, and I think they understood, but didn’t believe me. My guess is that they are so used to systems that sync up themselves that this is scratching their heads.

They thought the tyre reset would make the system look for the tires- I told them that it was pressure only.

Included a pic of their programmer.

The IG sees the tires and responds to them, so the alligators have the codes. I think I’m the only IG that they have worked on with new sensors, so my codes are still in the programmer.?

In looking at the pattern, the passenger front tire reads as the driver front. The passenger rear reads as the front. It’s like the tires moved one spot clockwise?

So, when it comes time to swap to my winter tires on the Original rims and OE TPMS, how does a third party tire place rotate the tires and reporogram the OE TPMS?

I’m staring to think that a lot of people that have used 3rd party tires places are driving with tires that are not reporting the right places- and most people don’t add air or run equal pressures, so they don’t even a reason to look closely?

 

[Glen]

What shop is this?

 

[Clark Kent]

Thanks for the help.

Went back and tried to explain some of these things, and I think they understood, but didn’t believe me. My guess is that they are so used to systems that sync up themselves that this is scratching their heads.

They thought the tyre reset would make the system look for the tires- I told them that it was pressure only.

Included a pic of their programmer.

The IG sees the tires and responds to them, so the alligators have the codes. I think I’m the only IG that they have worked on with new sensors, so my codes are still in the programmer.?

In looking at the pattern, the passenger front tire reads as the driver front. The passenger rear reads as the front. It’s like the tires moved one spot clockwise?

So, when it comes time to swap to my winter tires on the Original rims and OE TPMS, how does a third party tire place rotate the tires and reporogram the OE TPMS?

I’m staring to think that a lot of people that have used 3rd party tires places are driving with tires that are not reporting the right places- and most people don’t add air or run equal pressures, so they don’t even a reason to look closely?

That's been my experience also. I booked in to a reputable local tyre shop for a rotation and balance. I asked for their rotation strategy because I would need to decode alerts and positions manually until I could get the TPMS updated by a dealer. The shop could read each sensor and they changed the wheel positions using an Autel TS601MaxiTPMS tool. The sensor positions updated on their tool but the onboard TPMS did not update.
I've since had the TPMS updated at a dealer but I haven't messed about with pressures to see if the positions are now correct.

 

[AztecGrenadier]

Thanks for the help.

Went back and tried to explain some of these things, and I think they understood, but didn’t believe me. My guess is that they are so used to systems that sync up themselves that this is scratching their heads.

They thought the tyre reset would make the system look for the tires- I told them that it was pressure only.

Included a pic of their programmer.

The IG sees the tires and responds to them, so the alligators have the codes. I think I’m the only IG that they have worked on with new sensors, so my codes are still in the programmer.?

In looking at the pattern, the passenger front tire reads as the driver front. The passenger rear reads as the front. It’s like the tires moved one spot clockwise?

So, when it comes time to swap to my winter tires on the Original rims and OE TPMS, how does a third party tire place rotate the tires and reporogram the OE TPMS?

I’m staring to think that a lot of people that have used 3rd party tires places are driving with tires that are not reporting the right places- and most people don’t add air or run equal pressures, so they don’t even a reason to look closely?

The Autel TS508 is supposed to be able to program the Aligator TPMS sensors. It can be found online and used for about $150.

This would allow you to move the tires and change the sensor IDs to still match the Grenadier.

If you want to DM me I have gone through this and have some experience and expertise.

Thanks...

 

[Glen]

. . . they changed the wheel positions using an Autel TS601MaxiTPMS tool.

Where? The only place position is recorded is in the Ineos software, e.g., LF = A26E0793. It’s not a function of the TPMS sender. And the Autel can’t write anything to the Ineos.

Do you mean they wrote new IDs to each (programmable, so not OEM) sensor so that the newly positioned tires used the ID of the tire that used to be there? … the effect being ID and position would match what was stored in the vehicle’s TPMS system?

 

[Glen]

The Autel TS508 is supposed to be able to program the Aligator TPMS sensors. It can be found online and used for about $150.
...

I can’t find anything from Alligator that mentions Autel by name. I’m happy to try my Autel - @MileHigh , send me a DM and we’ll arrange to meet up and see if we can improve your situation.

 

[Clark Kent]

Where? The only place position is recorded is in the Ineos software, e.g., LF = A26E0793. It’s not a function of the TPMS sender. And the Autel can’t write anything to the Ineos.

Do you mean they wrote new IDs to each (programmable, so not OEM) sensor so that the newly positioned tires used the ID of the tire that used to be there? … the effect being ID and position would match what was stored in the vehicle’s TPMS system?

Factory sensors.
I wasn't present. I asked for the positions to be updated after the rotation. They said it was done and showed me the screen on their tool as evidence they could read the sensors. It's an OBDII tool but I have no idea if that permits them to interact with the vehicle system. They were surprised it didn't update so clearly had some expectation it would work.